Chief Aircraft----Bah, Hum Bug

[Bob R]

While I hate to bad mouth any shop, this particular issue needs to be reported. For a month or so, I have been having a couple of issues with my primary PFD, Garmin G5. The first thing it did was stop booting up under airplane power and would only boot up on battery. The other issue is that is would not recognize the GMU 11. I checked the pin for power and it was present. I even swapped the power supplies between by two G5's and this did not resolve the issues. I called Greg at Baker Avionics and he graciously sent me down another G5 he had, and this resolved the issue of bootup under airplane power but not the GMU 11 being reported as not connected on the G5. I took my G5, which now is out of warranty and it is being sent to Garmin to be looked at. Realize, before I go further, Garmin classifies these as "Over the counter" units. I had two of these Garmin certified shops tell me that I needed to calibrate or swing the compass for the GMU 11 to work correctly. I tried to tell them it cannot be done unless the G5 recognized the GMU 11 and that when the aircraft is stationary, the G5's report a heading of 347 degrees no matter which way the aircraft is pointing.

Today, I called Chief which is where I purchased the second G5 with GMU 11 and GAD 29B. They were more concerned with why I took the unit to Baker Avionics to have it installed instead of them. Furthermore, they want me to fly up to Grants Pass from Sacramento, so they can charge me $120/hr. diagnostics for a $275 part. Dana, their avionics manager, in my opinion, is completely out of touch with reality and is certainly sore that Baker Avionics has cut into their business. They do not care about their customer; they just want to be pissed off that someone had the gall to open a avionics business at the same airport. Dana must not believe in capitalism. I told them I took it to Greg because he was a friend of mine stopping short of telling him Chief was over priced and could not even address my airplane for four months. This second unit is under warranty. It is a no brainer and no skin off their butt to get is fixed. I am of the opinion they would just like to point the finger at Greg and as far as I am concerned, Greg's workmanship is better than I have experienced anywhere else. 

I will never purchase anything from Chief Aircraft again. I am calling Garmin tomorrow about their "Over the Counter" unit and want a RMA or advanced replacement sent out. I will bet a year's salary it is the GMU 11 and nothing else. I want the GAD 29B checked out as well. I don't need that unit to be bad if and when Tru-Trak is certified. Something blew the primary G5 and nothing has changed in the airplane.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from Chief Aircraft, I know I will. I will post the outcome.

Bob

[carusoam]

Kind of a good pirep for Mr. Baker... 

Mr. Baker also monitors MS and solves issues, and gives advice, often...

As for Big G... there is a CS guy named Trek... you might be familiar... trek has been with big G for years...

You can probably get in touch with Trek tonight... but you have to leave the confines of MS to do that...  go directly to BT if able...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

I used airborne electronics in sacramento. When I had an issue with my magnetometer they handled it with Garmin. It was all hands off for me. Next time give them a try.  
 

-Robert 

[Bob R]

Just as Carusoam said, Greg solves problems. I called Garmin today they gave me a rash of crap, as usual. Ended up calling Greg and as of today he is a Garmin dealer. Lo and behold I'll have a new GMU 11 on Monday. As far as Robert's post, I have nothing bad to say about airborne. They resolved a squelch issue in my 530 at no cost. He's a great guy.

However, I cannot imagine using anyone else but Baker Avionics for all of my avionics needs. Best bang for the buck and the work is outstanding.

I am still struck by Chief caring more about where I took my airplane to get the avionics installed rather than take care of their customer. They will not need to take care of this customer in the future.

Go BIG G. See you soon.

Bob

[Dana Blix]

Bob Randolph emailed Chief late night on 9-22, indicating he had concerns and on how to proceed with a warranty claim on a G5-30 purchased 5/19,  This is the standard HSI kit that included a GAD29b and GMU11. 

This is referenced as his Primary PFD herein. Before I could read the email he was on the phone early 9-23 asking for assistance on how to expedite a warranty claim. 

Before we could answer that we asked how he came to the conclusion that the GMU is defective and we sought out a couple additional questions when we heard, "yeah, I think my GAD29 is going as well and I want that checked out also". This sounded wrong, too many things wrong, we've literally sold a thousand of these and never have had a warranty request.

 

At that time I was under the impression that he was located in Oregon since I noticed that he had the unit sent to an Oregon address. He was told that in order for Chief Avionics to proceed and request an RMA from Garmin that we had to verify the failure per Garmin's policy. Because he was expecting everything to be covered under warranty he was told since we are a 145 repair station we had to open a work order and provide the inspection and the cost for that would likely be an hour of labor and would be $120.00. He was also told that any Garmin dealer could verify claimed failures and submit it for warranty to Garmin. 

 

There was at no time in this conversation did I mention or ask why he had the product installed by Baker avionics, that was provided in his email. There was no time that I mentioned that Baker was cutting into our business nor did I mention anything about business. We all understand that Bob is a fanboy booster for Baker.

My heartburn with Baker started the day I received a call from the FBI telling me that it was Baker who stole my personal and Chief Avionics credit information and sold it to others after he departed Chief Avionics. 

Baker competes on the same airport however for over 35 years the 99% of Chief Avionics business doesn't come from this airport, so the statement is fictitious and hyperbolic.

 

Chief Avionics is a Garmin Platinum dealer and works hard to maintain that, it means this and includes the writer of bah humbug, we're busy and we don't have time to meddle in other people's business and make baseless statements. Our goal is to keep it professional and have fun while doing our jobs.

 

All Customers who seek warranty repair are treated respectfully, as was Bob. Manufactures have different warranty procedures for providing them with proof or evidence when it comes to electrical or mechanical failure. 

Garmin requires dealers to provide some evidence that electronics fails have been vetted. Bob has intentionally misrepresented parts of a conversation that weren't even discussed, he was offered a path to attain his request for warranty as well as other options.

 

Justice Clarence Thomas was asked in a 2018 interview about how he felt about serving so many years on the highest court, saying.

"I don't understand why so many people say they're a victim, when they're the ones doing the provoking".

[Bob R]

Just not true Dana. I was specifically asked why I took it to Greg instead of Chief. NOTHING has been represented. You specifically told me I needed to swing the compass to get the GMU 11 to work after I told you that 2 different G5's reported the magmatometer was NOT present/recognized. Now how in the hell can you swing the compass when the PFD doesn't know the GMU 11 is installed? You started referencing the terminators for the canbus but no errors exist in diagnostics. I have been an IT systems engineer for over 20 years. I know all about terminating a bus. By the way, I have a new GMU 11 on the way. Would you like to make a wager that it is the GMU 11?

As far as the GAD 29B, I did reference it. I just wanted to make sure everything was okay with it. As a customer, I don't see an issue with wanting to make sure all components are working after something took out the GMU 11 and the input power on the G5. The GMU 11 is $275 retail. Flying 700 miles round trip and paying you $120 an hour just to tell me there's an issue with the GMU 11, just makes no economic sense. You had a chance to service your customer who knew exactly what the problem was, and I suspect you did too, but you just didn't ccare.

By the way, Bill Clinton said he didn't have sexual relations with that woman. What's your excuse?

Bob

[PT20J]

This is an example of why I dislike this sort of pirep on social media. There are always two sides to the story and it's impossible for third parties to make sense of what really happened. Each side will argue to the death that their view is right.

Thirty years ago, I ran a small company and did business with Dana. I found him to be honest, forthright and very willing to share his business knowledge and advice. The fact that Dana has built a company that has not only survived but prospered for so long must signify something. I can only think of a few others that have been so successful: Hal Shevers, and the Irwins come to mind.

More recently I had Greg offer to loan me an instrument to troubleshoot an intermittent avionics problem without even knowing much about me. I've met Greg at a tradeshow and found him knowledgeable and extremely willing to share his knowledge and experience to help a fellow aviator out.

One thing we might all learn from this is that it is going to be easier to deal with post installation issues if you only have one company to deal with. I recently had a warranty issue with a GTX 345 and there were no problems at all because I purchased the equipment and the installation from the same shop. When multiple entities are involved, there is bound to be finger pointing. At least that's been my experience. I've done it both ways and no longer find the small cost savings to be worth the potential hassle.

Skip

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, and Way to go, Dana...

Might you be somebody related to Chief Avionics..?

 

At MS...

We try to maintain open conversations with vendors...

This usually helps us all out in the long run...

As a vendor, I don’t see how public responses of This style are going to be helpful for anyone...
 

By tomorrow, I probably won’t remember Bob’s challenges... but, memory of a vendor coming to MS is quite lasting... there aren’t that many vendors, compared to pilots....

 

Looks like the customer May not have much depth in the avionics business... and could use a hand with whatever disaster has befallen him...

Might want to reset the clock, and start again...

PP thoughts only, in a public forum, watching flaming wreckage occur, in a customer service arena...

Best regards,

-a-

P.S.  MS is on the internet... but, it is not the internet...

[KRviator]

10 hours ago, Dana Blix said:

Bob Randolph emailed Chief late night on 9-22, indicating he had concerns and on how to proceed with a warranty claim on a G5-30 purchased 5/19,  This is the standard HSI kit that included a GAD29b and GMU11. 

This is referenced as his Primary PFD herein. Before I could read the email he was on the phone early 9-23 asking for assistance on how to expedite a warranty claim. 

 

I'd send an email and follow it up with a phone call the following morning if I had a newly-installed G5 as an HSI that wasn't working and I needed it repaired. You sound like you're surprised that someone would do such a thing?

10 hours ago, Dana Blix said:

This sounded wrong, too many things wrong, we've literally sold a thousand of these and never have had a warranty request.

I installed a Dynon GPS antenna in my RV and it went bad. But the funny thing is, Dynon never, not once, quibbled or said "we've sold thousands of these and never had a problem". The RMA was accepted, it was sent back and I had a new one on the way and in my hands within the week - and that's the other side of the world...And IIRC it was ultimately found a particular batch did have a trend of failing.

10 hours ago, Dana Blix said:

Chief Avionics is a Garmin Platinum dealer and works hard to maintain that, it means this and includes the writer of bah humbug, we're busy and we don't have time to meddle in other people's business and make baseless statements.

Yet here you are...

10 hours ago, Dana Blix said:

Our goal is to keep it professional and have fun while doing our jobs.

I'd suggest you've failed spectacularly at that so far...Even by simply posting Bob R's surname here. I'd be royally pi$$ed if you did that about my account....

Anyway, there's quite a few, uhh, "interesting" other forum posts when you google the name Dana Blix and Chief Aircraft. Coupled with the reply here, I certainly know who I won't be using for any future work.

[PTK]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:24 PM, Bob R said:

The first thing it did was stop booting up under airplane power and would only boot up on battery. The other issue is that is would not recognize the GMU 11.

Is there a good reason you went to Baker who was not a Garmin dealer? And then you return to the Garmin dealer demanding they solve your issues the non G dealer can’t?

[Baker Avionics]

3 hours ago, PTK said:

Is there a good reason you went to Baker who is not a Garmin dealer? And then you return to the Garmin dealer demanding they solve your issues the non G dealer can’t?

Well hello Pete! Please see screenshot.

Enjoy!

Edited September 26, 2020 by Baker Avionics

[M016576]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:24 PM, Bob R said:

While I hate to bad mouth any shop, this particular issue needs to be reported. For a month or so, I have been having a couple of issues with my primary PFD, Garmin G5. The first thing it did was stop booting up under airplane power and would only boot up on battery. The other issue is that is would not recognize the GMU 11. I checked the pin for power and it was present. I even swapped the power supplies between by two G5's and this did not resolve the issues. I called Greg at Baker Avionics and he graciously sent me down another G5 he had, and this resolved the issue of bootup under airplane power but not the GMU 11 being reported as not connected on the G5. I took my G5, which now is out of warranty and it is being sent to Garmin to be looked at. Realize, before I go further, Garmin classifies these as "Over the counter" units. I had two of these Garmin certified shops tell me that I needed to calibrate or swing the compass for the GMU 11 to work correctly. I tried to tell them it cannot be done unless the G5 recognized the GMU 11 and that when the aircraft is stationary, the G5's report a heading of 347 degrees no matter which way the aircraft is pointing.

Today, I called Chief which is where I purchased the second G5 with GMU 11 and GAD 29B. They were more concerned with why I took the unit to Baker Avionics to have it installed instead of them. Furthermore, they want me to fly up to Grants Pass from Sacramento, so they can charge me $120/hr. diagnostics for a $275 part. Dana, their avionics manager, in my opinion, is completely out of touch with reality and is certainly sore that Baker Avionics has cut into their business. They do not care about their customer; they just want to be pissed off that someone had the gall to open a avionics business at the same airport. Dana must not believe in capitalism. I told them I took it to Greg because he was a friend of mine stopping short of telling him Chief was over priced and could not even address my airplane for four months. This second unit is under warranty. It is a no brainer and no skin off their butt to get is fixed. I am of the opinion they would just like to point the finger at Greg and as far as I am concerned, Greg's workmanship is better than I have experienced anywhere else. 

I will never purchase anything from Chief Aircraft again. I am calling Garmin tomorrow about their "Over the Counter" unit and want a RMA or advanced replacement sent out. I will bet a year's salary it is the GMU 11 and nothing else. I want the GAD 29B checked out as well. I don't need that unit to be bad if and when Tru-Trak is certified. Something blew the primary G5 and nothing has changed in the airplane.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from Chief Aircraft, I know I will. I will post the outcome.

Bob

I have had multiple interactions in person and over email with Dana and Chief over the course of the 8 or so years I lived near Grants Pass.  
 

I found him, Terry, Noreen and Chief in general to be a stand up shop with top notch work at a highly competitive price.  Their installs of my PFD, GPS and Engine monitor were all completed on time and under my allotted budget- and still are running strong and without issue (the PFD and engine monitor were installed in 2014).
 

I couldn’t disagree more with Bob’s sentiment- I’m sure it’s just some sort of misunderstanding. 

[Baker Avionics]

13 hours ago, PT20J said:

This is an example of why I dislike this sort of pirep on social media. There are always two sides to the story and it's impossible for third parties to make sense of what really happened. Each side will argue to the death that their view is right.

Thirty years ago, I ran a small company and did business with Dana. I found him to be honest, forthright and very willing to share his business knowledge and advice. The fact that Dana has built a company that has not only survived but prospered for so long must signify something. I can only think of a few others that have been so successful: Hal Shevers, and the Irwins come to mind.

More recently I had Greg offer to loan me an instrument to troubleshoot an intermittent avionics problem without even knowing much about me. I've met Greg at a tradeshow and found him knowledgeable and extremely willing to share his knowledge and experience to help a fellow aviator out.

One thing we might all learn from this is that it is going to be easier to deal with post installation issues if you only have one company to deal with. I recently had a warranty issue with a GTX 345 and there were no problems at all because I purchased the equipment and the installation from the same shop. When multiple entities are involved, there is bound to be finger pointing. At least that's been my experience. I've done it both ways and no longer find the small cost savings to be worth the potential hassle.

Skip

Skip, thank you for the kind words! I agree totally with you post. I will say that there are 3 sides, their side, their side and then the truth. Either way, I am sorry folks have to do things like this and spread untruths about others. 

Like you, I feel that Chief has made it for 30+ years if ups and downs and that says LOADS! That is a great business model and they didn't get there by messing around. They have done by hard work. Sometimes we win some and sometimes we lose some and we need to take our lumos accordingly. I, personally, have nothing against any other company or their employees. 

I am sorry if this causes confusion. 

[Guest]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:31 PM, Dana Blix said:

Bob Randolph emailed Chief late night on 9-22, indicating he had concerns and on how to proceed with a warranty claim on a G5-30 purchased 5/19,  This is the standard HSI kit that included a GAD29b and GMU11. 

This is referenced as his Primary PFD herein. Before I could read the email he was on the phone early 9-23 asking for assistance on how to expedite a warranty claim. 

Before we could answer that we asked how he came to the conclusion that the GMU is defective and we sought out a couple additional questions when we heard, "yeah, I think my GAD29 is going as well and I want that checked out also". This sounded wrong, too many things wrong, we've literally sold a thousand of these and never have had a warranty request.

 

At that time I was under the impression that he was located in Oregon since I noticed that he had the unit sent to an Oregon address. He was told that in order for Chief Avionics to proceed and request an RMA from Garmin that we had to verify the failure per Garmin's policy. Because he was expecting everything to be covered under warranty he was told since we are a 145 repair station we had to open a work order and provide the inspection and the cost for that would likely be an hour of labor and would be $120.00. He was also told that any Garmin dealer could verify claimed failures and submit it for warranty to Garmin. 

 

There was at no time in this conversation did I mention or ask why he had the product installed by Baker avionics, that was provided in his email. There was no time that I mentioned that Baker was cutting into our business nor did I mention anything about business. We all understand that Bob is a fanboy booster for Baker.

My heartburn with Baker started the day I received a call from the FBI telling me that it was Baker who stole my personal and Chief Avionics credit information and sold it to others after he departed Chief Avionics. 

Baker competes on the same airport however for over 35 years the 99% of Chief Avionics business doesn't come from this airport, so the statement is fictitious and hyperbolic.

 

Chief Avionics is a Garmin Platinum dealer and works hard to maintain that, it means this and includes the writer of bah humbug, we're busy and we don't have time to meddle in other people's business and make baseless statements. Our goal is to keep it professional and have fun while doing our jobs.

 

All Customers who seek warranty repair are treated respectfully, as was Bob. Manufactures have different warranty procedures for providing them with proof or evidence when it comes to electrical or mechanical failure. 

Garmin requires dealers to provide some evidence that electronics fails have been vetted. Bob has intentionally misrepresented parts of a conversation that weren't even discussed, he was offered a path to attain his request for warranty as well as other options.

 

Justice Clarence Thomas was asked in a 2018 interview about how he felt about serving so many years on the highest court, saying.

"I don't understand why so many people say they're a victim, when they're the ones doing the provoking".

How do expect to gain any credibility if you don’t sign your post with a name and credentials?  
 

Clarence

[PTK]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:31 PM, Dana Blix said:

He was also told that any Garmin dealer could verify claimed failures and submit it for warranty to Garmin.

Exactly! I still have trouble understanding why he called you, a Garmin dealer, after he had it installed by a non Garmin dealer. Only reason I can think is that the other shop was not a G dealer and therefore could not initiate a warranty claim. 
This gentleman has no credible complaint as far as I have read. He also strikes me as very arrogant. He goes to Chief when he has trouble and expects to dictate what they should do and do it now! And instead of saying thank you when they try to help him he turns around and bad mouths them! It’s comical!  

[carusoam]

Some vendors look forward to the challenge of helping out a person in need...

Many solutions only require advice on how to handle the needy person’s next steps...
 

Nobody knows the available next steps like a valuable person in the avionics business...

When shared here... that avionics company gets a bunch of thankyous... Attaboys... and pics of successful avionics installs in Mooneys...

The more insight the avionics company delivers, the greater their chances are at selling their wares and services...

 

Congrats Peter, you may be dead right... it isn’t really fun to be dead...  (picture dad explaining driving rules to a teenager in the 70s...)

No matter how wrong the customer always is... my favorite NJ Dr. (I have a few) wouldn’t write negativity about me in a public place...
 

Sure, there are better ways to bring things up... MS is a pretty open place.  No requirements for spelling or proper sentence structure...  or proper methods for asking for help...

Sticking to the facts is always appreciated...
 

This event comes across like a public shaming... 

It doesn’t happen often, because the vendor has no way to win...

If the best the vendor can do is be quiet... the competition can get tougher...

If the Vendor rants about people in public... the competition is himself...

Don’t beat yourself up, trying to prove a point...  
 

The point may be minuscule to one person, but seems gigantic to the other...
 

Good luck moving forwards,  Sometimes you only get one chance to make a friend...

Best regards,

-a-

[KRviator]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Some vendors look forward to the challenge of helping out a person in need...

Many solutions only require advice on how to handle the needy person’s next steps...
 

Nobody knows the available next steps like a valuable person in the avionics business...

When shared here... that avionics company gets a bunch of thankyous... Attaboys... and pics of successful avionics installs in Mooneys...

The more insight the avionics company delivers, the greater their chances are at selling their wares and services...

Word-of-mouth is an incredibly important tool in aviation, particularly as regards good maintenance shops or service providers.

One of the best examples I can think of is Stein Air. I can't recall a single negative thing I've seen written about that company or its' people, and they are almost universally acclaimed in the Experimental world, because they go above and beyond, heck they even do an Escrow-type service for high-dollar avionics purchases between two other parties. You only have to look at the reviews they get on places like VansAirForce to know you'll do far worse than them. I'm sure they have their issues with customers too, what business wouldn't, but they've never resorted to bashing them on an internet newsgroup for all and sundry to see.

And no, I have no connection with Stein or his staff whatsoever (I'm not even on the same continent!), beyond buying switches and other avionicky knick-knacks from their web store. But I use that webstore over others because of the help they've given to so many other RV builders...

[Missile=Awesome]

Purchased our G5’s from Chief.  They were installed by our A&P.  We had a battery back-up in one unit that was DOA.  Returned and received another unit.  No hassle.  No issue.  Chief was price competitive and delivered.  I would GLADLY purchase from Chief again.

[ArtVandelay]

Well hello Pete! Please see screenshot.
Enjoy!

That list also includes Walmart, as noted not all locations have all products. So do you sell, service (incl warranty), and install all Garmin avionics for GA fleet? Including GTN, G3X, TXI, GFC, etc

[KB4]

2 hours ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Purchased our G5’s from Chief.  They were installed by our A&P.  We had a battery back-up in one unit that was DOA.  Returned and received another unit.  No hassle.  No issue.  Chief was price competitive and delivered.  I would GLADLY purchase from Chief again.

Got my GTX335 from Dana and Chief.  2 days after I paid, Garmin came out with a promo.  I had no idea about promo until Dana (called or emailed cant remember) to tell me I was SAVING MONEY getting free antenna and Garmin usb plug cigarette style.

I have no problem doing business with Chief.  

[PTK]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:31 PM, Dana Blix said:

My heartburn with Baker started the day I received a call from the FBI telling me that it was Baker who stole my personal and Chief Avionics credit information and sold it to others after he departed Chief Avionics. 

Wow!! This is serious! When the feds, a pair of physically fit individuals in cargo pants and polos, knocked on his door early in the morning he knew they weren't there for breakfast and coffee!

[MikeOH]

Well, I've been enjoying the fireworks on this topic.

My conclusion: Don't come on here with a NEGATIVE review of any vendor.  Only praise is welcome.

[carusoam]

Around MS...

Positive reviews are very powerful...

If I’m looking to buy something... I’m looking for the input of an MSer that has had a good experience that I can copy...

Sure... a negative experience has to be really bad to carry much meaning...

The bad ones of any ranking are things like the BK badged AI that couldn’t do its job properly... or that other multi-function tool that was primarily a clock with a sensorless AOAi that didn’t work properly...
 

I didn’t associate any too much weight to the OP’s challenge...  He was having a tough time getting his problem straightened out... As many of us can have a similar challenge...
 

Now....

Dana shows up as a new member to MS, and takes shots at two MSers in good standing...   Leaving no information about who he is, or what he does for Chief...
 

Maybe he isn’t even the real Dana... it’s possible Dana has had his ID stolen, and somebody else is doing a fine job of making him look like a jerk...

MS has been around for more than a decade...

Behavior like this has been known to be destructive to anyone that launches or partakes in the attack...

I usually expect unprofessional attacks to come in the form of a tweet, launched from the Oval Office... 

 

MSers are better than that...
 

Avionics consumers are smarter than that...

Does anyone know the real Dana?

PP thoughts on customer service issues on MS, not a CS engineer...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

50 minutes ago, carusoam said:

PP thoughts on customer service issues on MS, not a CS engineer...

That's because even half-assed Engineers know to stay the hell out of Customer Service!! There's a reason I enjoy working with equipment, a lesson I learned working in a high-class jewelry store for 2 years . . . .

I often try to be nice to CS folks because a good one can do great things, but when they make my life too difficult, I return the favor in USMC spades.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

when they make my life too difficult, I return the favor in USMC spades.

That cracked me up.  I can't get R Lee Ermey's voice out of my head now!