Some new owner questions

[MooneyBe]

Hi all,

A few questions that I have following some initial flights... 

1. Oil: Do you generally use Camguard/oil additive? I've never used it in the past (on an IO-360 that ran Shell 15-50W and already had the additive included) but given the Phillips 66 X/C 20W50 doesn't have that additive (I don't think), I wanted to see if yall are using it. 

2. TKS: I have heard a lot about the importance of pre-flighting the TKS system and 'priming' it. Is there more to this than what is stipulated in the operating manual (i.e. more than just turning the system on as part of pre-flight and ensuring fluid is flowing where it should/shouldn't? Also, is there a good way to tell the TKS fluid quantity as you're filling the system? I suppose you could turn master on and fill the system and look to see the gallons on the panel display but wondering if there's another method?

3. Preferred motorized tow bar? I have a winch in that used on my old amphib but don't like the idea of yanking the Mooney from the tail tie down so we're in the market for a tow bar (push bar?)? 

[Danb]

I use camguard in my Bravo, I’d look at the amount of flying your doing to determine in it’s necessary, if your getting up weekly it’s most likely of no benefit. Mine may sit for over 10 days especially in the winter so I use it religiously. Multi vs straight weight oil will render you a multitude of differing opinions 

[LANCECASPER]

Preferred towbar for me is the Redline Sidewinder. I've used a lot of different ones and this one works best for me, however I'm not dealing with any snow and ice.

I've used camguard on mine. On my next oil change I'm going to try Philips Victory 20/50 which has the Lycoming anti-scuff built in.  https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/phillips_08-17114.php

[tmo]

One thing to note is that Camguard is NOT LW-16702.

LW-16702 is really only required very few Lycoming engines. See Lycoming SB 446E for reference. It probably won't hurt a Lycoming 540.

On my TSIO-360-LB1 I use Camguard and Phillips 66 XC 20W50, not the Victory. I seem to recall LW-16702 is said to cause slipping of some starter clutches on Continental engines; obviously not applicable here, but I would think twice before using Victory in any Continental. Some of the AeroShell multiweight oils also have LW-16702 mixed in.

[carusoam]

For a differing opinion on camguard... ask @PTK...

For the tow bar... 99% around here are sidewinder... because it is portable too...

For TKS... that is a certified system that you want to be really familiar with... right from the POH...

The search function is going to be your friend for newby questions...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, tmo said:

One thing to note is that Camguard is NOT LW-16702.

LW-16702 is really only required very few Lycoming engines. See Lycoming SB 446E for reference. It probably won't hurt a Lycoming 540.

 

Not only will it not hurt a Lycoming 540, it is recommended for it.  LW-16702 is recommended for all Lycoming engines except those with a friction type clutch. 

 

[StevenL757]

9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Preferred towbar for me is the Redline Sidewinder. I've used a lot of different ones and this one works best for me, however I'm not dealing with any snow and ice.

Ditto...except I have to suck it up and deal with it during snow and ice.

[carusoam]

For Snowy days at home...

something like this anchored to the ground can work wonders...

It will need a 12v source and a gentle way to connect to your plane, tail hooks may not be the best...

https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/winches/electric-winches.html
 

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyBe]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

For Snowy days at home...

something like this anchored to the ground can work wonders...

It will need a 12v source and a gentle way to connect to your plane, tail hooks may not be the best...

https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/winches/electric-winches.html
 

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you and I have been using the search feature heavily :0. Is it 'safe' to tow/winch the plane from the aft tie down point? I actually used to do this with my amphib because it had no other tow points, so have all the gear to do it!

[Davidv]

22 hours ago, MooneyBe said:

Thank you and I have been using the search feature heavily :0. Is it 'safe' to tow/winch the plane from the aft tie down point? I actually used to do this with my amphib because it had no other tow points, so have all the gear to do it!

I would say no based on a few factors. The main reason is that the nose gear has very limited play and you wouldn't be able to see the turn limit indicator on the nose gear.  It's also a pretty heavy aircraft so I don't think you would want to put those kinds of forces on the tail when turning given how far aft of CG it is.  If you turned it too tight you would either be damaging the nose truss or in some worse case scenario (if a tire got snagged on something), trying to bend the tail in a direction it doesn't want to go.

I'm not an expert but those are my 2 cents.

I currently use a Thundervolt tow bar that I purchased used: https://www.powertow.com/ThunderVolt-12-Volt-DC-Aircraft-Tug-_p_17.html.  It works very well but you just need to also be careful you don't turn the nose wheel too far in one direction.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Davidv

[apenney]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:50 AM, MooneyBe said:

Also, is there a good way to tell the TKS fluid quantity as you're filling the system? I suppose you could turn master on and fill the system and look to see the gallons on the panel display but wondering if there's another method?

 

I'm a new Bravo owner as well and when I filled my TKS tank for the first time, I ended up with lots on the floor.  I stopped filling it when the level got up to the level of the fill nozzle but apparently there is a point downstream that allows excess out of the system (or I'm not understanding the system).  My plan next time is to watch the remaining TKS gallons  while in flight before descent and landing and then use 1 or 2.5 gallon containers to fill the rough appropriate amount.  On the ground, my TKS remaining is 1-1.5 gallons  less than the actual amount remaining - I'm assuming it is because of the slight nose up attitude on the ground.

[milotron]

16 minutes ago, apenney said:

I'm a new Bravo owner as well and when I filled my TKS tank for the first time, I ended up with lots on the floor.  I stopped filling it when the level got up to the level of the fill nozzle but apparently there is a point downstream that allows excess out of the system (or I'm not understanding the system).  My plan next time is to watch the remaining TKS gallons  while in flight before descent and landing and then use 1 or 2.5 gallon containers to fill the rough appropriate amount.  On the ground, my TKS remaining is 1-1.5 gallons  less than the actual amount remaining - I'm assuming it is because of the slight nose up attitude on the ground.

There is a vent at the top of the TKS tank that is just below the level of the back seat, under which the TKS tank lives. It will over flow out from there if you fill it too high.

 

You definitely need to monitor the level on the display or note the amount you want to add and only add that amount. 

 

Note also that the level indication is quite a bit different on the ground vs in the air due to the angle of the plane on the ground. I note my delta needed to fill in the air and add that amount when on the ground. I think the it reads low on the ground, if I recall.

 

At over $55CDN shipped, per gallon, I really don't like just spilling it on the ground.

[carusoam]

16 hours ago, MooneyBe said:

Thank you and I have been using the search feature heavily :0. Is it 'safe' to tow/winch the plane from the aft tie down point? I actually used to do this with my amphib because it had no other tow points, so have all the gear to do it!

The tie downs are very strong...

But they are not tow points...

So...

If it is a flat surface and the forces aren’t out of the ordinary... it is a convenient spot...

 

Since the plane is really expensive.....

Skip the convenience and hook the tow cable to a proper part of the tow bar.... where there is plenty of strength for towing....

 

This was the recommendation for slippery surfaces...

If you have a sidewinder, that works very conveniently... until there is a slippery surface....

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-