TRoute question

[jamesm]

Hi,

I am VFR pilot working towards is my Instrument ticket.  I  haven't actually started the instrument training but past the written recently.

My  current setup 2 G5's   GNC255(Nav/Com) GNC355 (GPS/Com) NGT9000+ for ADS-B , GAD 13 OAT,  no autopilot or wing  leveler in a '67C.

 I  was  playing with the Garmin 's GNC355 simulator on my Ipad mini.  I noticed  that GNC355 sim  appeared  to know  nothing about T-Routes.

Is there something that I am missing ?

They are charted routes on the sectional, I would expect to  be able to add a T-route into flight plan like I am able to do with Victor airways?

Or I am miss understanding the purpose of the T-Routes? or ????

 

Thanks in advance,

James '67C

 

 

[aviatoreb]

17 minutes ago, jamesm said:

Hi,

I am VFR pilot working towards is my Instrument ticket.  I  haven't actually started the instrument training but past the written recently.

My  current setup 2 G5's   GNC255(Nav/Com) GNC355 (GPS/Com) NGT9000+ for ADS-B , GAD 13 OAT,  no autopilot or wing  leveler in a '67C.

 I  was  playing with the Garmin 's GNC355 simulator on my Ipad mini.  I noticed  that GNC355 sim  appeared  to know  nothing about T-Routes.

Is there something that I am missing ?

They are charted routes on the sectional, I would expect to  be able to add a T-route into flight plan like I am able to do with Victor airways?

Or I am miss understanding the purpose of the T-Routes? or ????

 

Thanks in advance,

James '67C

 

 

I take my oldest son on Fishing trips all the time - and he is a big trout fisherman.  He is more into fishing than I am but I am more into flying than he is.  He picks a spot on the map where there is a good fishing river within biking distance from the airport and we fly there.  We call it "fly" fishing.

[ArtVandelay]

Don’t know, both Garmin Pilot and GTN 650 understand T routes.

[toto]

I've never been in the same room with a 355, but the AFMS clearly references "T" routes..

"Whenever possible, RNP and RNAV routes including Standard Instrument Departures (SIDs), Standard Terminal Arrival (STAR), and enroute RNAV “Q” and RNAV “T” routes should be loaded into the flight plan from the database in their entirety, rather than loading route waypoints from the database into the flight plan individually. Selecting and inserting individual named fixes from the database is permitted, provided all fixes along the published route to be flown are inserted. Manual entry of waypoints using latitude/longitude or place/bearing is prohibited."

[jamesm]

So then is the T-Routes recognized "Flight Plan" or "Proc" page on the GTN Navigators ?

On the GNC355 for the Victor Airway I just pick a Waypoint/intersection along  Victory airway and I am able to load airway then give an exit waypoint/intersection that shows up on the map page.

I guess I am not too sure how the Navigator  would know the beginning and end of the t-route.

[ArtVandelay]

So then is the T-Routes recognized "Flight Plan" or "Proc" page on the GTN Navigators ?
On the GNC355 for the Victor Airway I just pick a Waypoint/intersection along  Victory airway and I am able to load airway then give an exit waypoint/intersection that shows up on the map page.
I guess I am not too sure how the Navigator  would know the beginning and end of the t-route.

Works exactly the same way.

[jamesm]

 maybe the  Garmin GNC355 simulator app.

On T-Routes on the GTN  navigators does it need Starting and Ending  Waypoint/intersection  or the you call it my name T276 as an example?

Thanks for the input.

[Bob - S50]

On the GTN650, when I'm in the flight plan and I touch a waypoint, I can then touch 'load airway'.  I suspect you can too.

When I do that, ALL airways that pass through that fix are listed in alphabetical order.  All J routes, then Q routes, then T routes, then V routes.

I can think of two things that might cause the problem.

1.  Did you scroll up and down the list of routes?

2.  Maybe it LOOKS like a T route has that fix but it isn't really part of the airway.  For example, just north east of Portland Oregon there is an intersection named AXQOX.  It LOOKS like it's on both T276 and V468 but it isn't.  It is not part of T276 so I could not file V468 to AXQOX and then load T276 from there.  The GPS will not offer T276 at AXQOX.

What was the name of the fix at which you were hoping to jump on a T route?

[carusoam]

Sounds like you may have the answer....

But, for nav questions and their related boxes... I always think Of Mark @midlifeflyer...  so I invited to stop by if he has the time...

Mark puts in extra effort to know the various nav boxes that Mooney flyers use...

Best regards,

-a-

[Vance Harral]

Simulators are notorious for having old nav databases that don't get updated (at least not automatically).  Is it possible the T routes you are trying to load were only recently created, and therefore not in the simulator's nav database?

[jamesm]

37 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

 

What was the name of the fix at which you were hoping to jump on a T route?

I was curious on how the  GNC355 or Garmin in general recognizes T-Routes.  Once I understood  the method Garmin uses for  Victor airways.  I learned  that I had  to have  a beginning Waypoint/intersection on the Victor airway loaded victor airway  then give it an exit waypoint.

I was using an outdated sectional (should have been using an IFR  enrounte chart).  I wanted to know how Garmin  handles T routes.  I picked T276 because from software stand point I thought  would be tricky one to code.  I tried by giving T276 in flight plan page not recognized by GNC355 sim app.  I figured that I would need a beginning  waypoint.

So if  understand you correctly, I have beginning and end before I can select a  TRoute .

It worked when I selected Couga then I was able to select T276 route.  Probably not the best example or a practical one but more to affirm my understanding how the system is suppose to work.  I figured it is better learn how it works on the  ground than end the air.

Thanks for all the Input I appreciate it .

James

 

[Bob - S50]

1 hour ago, jamesm said:

I was curious on how the  GNC355 or Garmin in general recognizes T-Routes.  Once I understood  the method Garmin uses for  Victor airways.  I learned  that I had  to have  a beginning Waypoint/intersection on the Victor airway loaded victor airway  then give it an exit waypoint.

I was using an outdated sectional (should have been using an IFR  enrounte chart).  I wanted to know how Garmin  handles T routes.  I picked T276 because from software stand point I thought  would be tricky one to code.  I tried by giving T276 in flight plan page not recognized by GNC355 sim app.  I figured that I would need a beginning  waypoint.

So if  understand you correctly, I have beginning and end before I can select a  TRoute .

It worked when I selected Couga then I was able to select T276 route.  Probably not the best example or a practical one but more to affirm my understanding how the system is suppose to work.  I figured it is better learn how it works on the  ground than end the air.

Thanks for all the Input I appreciate it .

James

 

That's correct.  Just like a victor route, you have to start by navigating to a fix that is on your desired T route.  You can then tell your GPS to load that T route starting at that point.  It will then require that you also pick an exit point.

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Sounds like you may have the answer....

But, for nav questions and their related boxes... I always think Of Mark @midlifeflyer...  so I invited to stop by if he has the time...

Mark puts in extra effort to know the various nav boxes that Mooney flyers use...

Best regards,

-a-

You're too kind. But it looks like he got his answer. User error
Yes, you gotta give a starting fix to load an airway of any kind. This is from the 355 trainer, but I think that's applicable to any IFR box or EFB.

 

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, jamesm said:

So if  understand you correctly, I have beginning and end before I can select a  TRoute .

Just to be technical, you just need a beginning Entry Waypoint in order to select the route. Once you have that, the Airway selector will be available. When you choose the airway, the Exit Waypoint selector will give you all the optionsvto get off. Choose one and you are done.

Think in terms of a highway. That's really all it is. You need an entry point to get on it. Once on it you have a series of defined exits. 

[jlunseth]

I just tried this in the GTN simulator. Create a waypoint in a flight plan. Let’s use GEP (Gopher VOR in minneapolis) as an example. Once GEP is in, tap on GEP and you will see a screen with options one of which is to Load Airway. Tap on that and you will see the available airways and T Routes. Tap on your selected Route, let’s use T330 that runs from Gopher to Grand Forks. When you tap on T330 you then get a list of exit points to choose from. In this instance you could use JIXIR, which is right before Grand Forks, or the GKF VOR. Tap on that and the entire airway (TRoute) is automatically loaded.  You do not need to enter and exit point before tapping on and selecting the airway.

The processor starts by loading the beginning waypoint of the airway, in this case GEP, and then tapping on that waypoint to get the available routes.