Life with Presidential TFRs

[Guest]

For comparison, here’s the equivalent for our Prime Minister’s home. Less than 1 mile in diameter.

[Seymour]

  On 8/22/2020 at 5:25 PM, flyboy0681 said:

VFR flight plans work just fine, but just don't arrive at the outer ring unannounced when coming in, give ATC ample time to identify you and get things squared away if you aren't being handed off to them.

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A question to clarify, since my home drome is just inside the outer 30nm ring and I'll be returning during a VIP TFR this Friday:    If I'm under VFR flight following ( "traffic advisories" ) with a discrete transponder code flying direct to my uncontrolled field, do I also need to have filed a VFR flight plan?     ....and does it need to be activated?     

(I'd like my first formation flying experience to be a positive one.)

[mike_elliott]

  On 8/23/2020 at 1:47 PM, flyboy0681 said:

I was in Manhattan two years ago when Trump was in town. Words could not possibly describe traffic conditions in midtown as Fifth Avenue was shut down around Trump Tower.

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looking at the traffic in mid town lately on the business channel beauty shots, that might not be an issue any longer. Seems all the cars left Manhattan for some reason

[mike_elliott]

  On 8/24/2020 at 10:33 AM, M20Doc said:

For comparison, here’s the equivalent for our Prime Minister’s home. Less than 1 mile in diameter.

b

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We have the biggest TFRs..Our TFRs are the best, they are the biggest in the world.

[flyboy0681]

  On 8/24/2020 at 2:03 PM, mike_elliott said:

We have the biggest TFRs..Our TFRs are the best, they are the biggest in the world.

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They are the most beautiful TFR's you've ever seen.

[Andy95W]

  On 8/24/2020 at 2:00 PM, Seymour said:

A question to clarify, since my home drome is just inside the outer 30nm ring and I'll be returning during a VIP TFR this Friday:    If I'm under VFR flight following ( "traffic advisories" ) with a discrete transponder code flying direct to my uncontrolled field, do I also need to have filed a VFR flight plan?     ....and does it need to be activated?     

(I'd like my first formation flying experience to be a positive one.)

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Yes, you must be on a VFR flight plan, but that's a good question about "activated":

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 All aircraft must be on an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility. Aircraft must be squawking the discrete code prior to departure and at all times while in the TFR and must remain in two-way radio communications with ATC.

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Best suggestion, of course, is to activate it to remove any doubt or question from the Feds.  It's easy enough to do using the Lockheed Martin website, you won't have to talk to anyone on the radio.

https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/mobileweb/#/

[Marauder]

  On 8/24/2020 at 3:47 PM, Andy95W said:

Yes, you must be on a VFR flight plan, but that's a good question about "activated": ---------------

 All aircraft must be on an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan with a discrete code assigned by an Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility. Aircraft must be squawking the discrete code prior to departure and at all times while in the TFR and must remain in two-way radio communications with ATC.

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Best suggestion, of course, is to activate it to remove any doubt or question from the Feds.  It's easy enough to do using the Lockheed Martin website, you won't have to talk to anyone on the radio.

https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/mobileweb/#/

 

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You need to have an active VFR flight plan prior to entering the 30 nm ring of the TFR. Found a NORAD guide:

 

https://www.norad.mil/Portals/29/Documents/NORAD civil aviation kneeboard - US Airspace (Aug 17).pdf

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Marauder

[flyboy0681]

  On 8/24/2020 at 4:07 PM, Marauder said:

 

You need to have an active VFR flight plan prior to entering the 30 nm ring of the TFR. Found a NORAD guide:

 

 

https://www.norad.mil/Portals/29/Documents/NORAD%20civil%20aviation%20kneeboard%20-%20US%20Airspace%20(Aug%2017).pdf

 

 

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Need an active VFR Flight Plan but it doesn't have to be actually activated. All they want is a record of who is flying in case they need to refer to it.

[Marauder]

  On 8/24/2020 at 4:11 PM, flyboy0681 said:

Need an active VFR Flight Plan but it doesn't have to be actually activated. All they want is a record of who is flying in case they need to refer to it.

Check the “During Flight” section. It says “activate”. I’m pretty sure means you need to activate it, not just have one on file.


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[flyboy0681]

  On 8/24/2020 at 4:13 PM, Marauder said:

 

Check the “During Flight” section. It says “activate”. I’m pretty sure means you need to activate it, not just have one on file.


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When the Mar-a-Lago TFR was started, Palm Beach ATC held a town hall meeting and went through all of the steps and procedures for local pilots and that's what they told the group. Since that time I have flown VFR dozens of times during the TFR and have never been questioned whether I had opened the flight plan, even when returning home. Also keep in mind that during the TFR, Secret Service ATC Controllers (yes there's a such thing) are sitting beside the Palm Beach controllers watching over the scopes and have a controller up in the tower.

[Marauder]

  On 8/24/2020 at 4:23 PM, flyboy0681 said:

When the Mar-a-Lago TFR was started, Palm Beach ATC held a town hall meeting and went through all of the steps and procedures for local pilots and that's what they told the group. Since that time I have flown VFR dozens of times during the TFR and have never been questioned whether I had opened the flight plan, even when returning home. Also keep in mind that during the TFR, Secret Service ATC Controllers (yes there's a such thing) are sitting beside the Palm Beach controllers watching over the scopes and have a controller up in the tower.

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There was an AOPA article that was published a while back that mentioned that TFR procedures may be modified from the original intent of 91.141. Maybe this is what they meant.

When I pull up an active Trump TFR, it clearly shows it requires an active IFR or filed VFR flight plan. This leads to more confusion as to whether it needs to be activated.




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Edited August 24, 2020 by Marauder

[Hank]

  On 8/24/2020 at 2:03 PM, mike_elliott said:

We have the biggest TFRs..Our TFRs are the best, they are the biggest in the world.

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And the longest-lasting! See Washington, DC and Disneyworld . . . .

That's why I posted my 13th-floor-view of the DCA VOR, because that's about as high as I'll ever see it. In the airliner, the view from the back is rather restricted!

Edited August 24, 2020 by Hank

[EricJ]

  On 8/24/2020 at 5:34 PM, Hank said:

And the longest-lasting! See Washington, DC and Disneyworld . . . .

That's why I posted my 13th-floor-view of the DCA VOR, because that's about as high as I'll ever see it. In the airliner, the view from the back is rather restricted!

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Disneyland, too.  I think it's marketing rather than practicality.  Remember Disney also single-handedly got the copyright laws changed so that the Mickey Mouse copyrights wouldn't expire and become public domain.    They seem to know how to get what they want from the government.

Edited August 24, 2020 by EricJ

[aviatoreb]

  On 8/24/2020 at 5:54 PM, EricJ said:

Disneyland, too.  I think it's marketing rather than practicality.  Remember Disney also single-handedly got the copyright laws changed so that the Mickey Mouse copyrights wouldn't expire and become public domain.    They seem to know how to get what they want from the government.

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Donald Duck's uncle, Scrooge McDuck runs a very successful Lobbyist outfit.

[carusoam]

I think the purpose of the TFR has changed....

Since the military can create confetti out of any plane flying by....
 

It seems to be an anti-sleep deprivation tactic...

If a pilot wanted to interfere with the performance of the opposing team... slowly flying over the house with a heavy helicopter will make an excellent early wake up call...
 

I bet the neighbors really appreciate it as well...

Always be friendly to the ATC union... they could put a string of low flying heavy planes over your house for a month...   

PP Thoughts only, not a sleep expert...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Rmag]

@Marauder first one hits tomorrow at 5:30 PM to Monday 4:00 PM

[Hank]

  On 2/4/2021 at 7:46 PM, Rmag said:

@Marauder first one hits tomorrow at 5:30 PM to Monday 4:00 PM

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So will that keep everyone from being sent to the Modena penalty box?

[carusoam]

Modena, Moderna, Madonna...

Where do the Biden’s prefer to vacation, Martha’s Vineyard?

Best regards,

-A-

[flyboy0681]

  On 2/5/2021 at 2:10 AM, carusoam said:

Modena, Moderna, Madonna...

Where do the Biden’s prefer to vacation, Martha’s Vineyard?

Best regards,

-A-

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... sis boom bah

[Marauder]

  On 2/5/2021 at 1:49 AM, Hank said:

So will that keep everyone from being sent to the Modena penalty box?

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Thank goodness!!!!

[Marauder]

  On 2/5/2021 at 2:10 AM, carusoam said:

Modena, Moderna, Madonna...

Where do the Biden’s prefer to vacation, Martha’s Vineyard?

Best regards,

-A-

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He owns a large beach house in Rehoboth Beach. Rumor has it that they built a helipad either on or near the property.

[Marauder]

  On 2/4/2021 at 7:46 PM, Rmag said:

@Marauder first one hits tomorrow at 5:30 PM to Monday 4:00 PM

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This may finally fill up your hangars! I did find his first one was unusual. The inner circle is 12 nm wide. Historically they are 10 nm. Heard that it was widened to allow him to visit family in the area. I suspect, when summer rolls around, we can expect to see more of them at his Rehoboth beach home. 

[flyboy0681]

  On 2/5/2021 at 4:33 PM, Marauder said:

He owns a large beach house in Rehoboth Beach. Rumor has it that they built a helipad either on or near the property.

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Out with the old, in with the new..

 

[Rmag]

  On 2/5/2021 at 4:35 PM, Marauder said:

I suspect, when summer rolls around, we can expect to see more of them at his Rehoboth beach home. 

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Yeah I get to file flight plans at both ends.  His Rehoboth beach outer ring covers KWWD were I land in the summer. 

[Mark605]

There was a guy on Jax center last night in a TBM bellyaching because ATC told him he can't land at ILG because of the TFR. Guess we know who doesn't check NOTAM's....

He ended up going to EVY.