Engine out on takeoff at 400'

[robert7467]

Engine out on takeoff at 400'.

Edited July 11, 2020 by robert7467

[Andy95W]

Despite your title, this is one of the least fun topics I can envision.

EDIT: Robert originally had a different title for this

[Hank]

Just now, robert7467 said:

Engine out on takeoff at 400'.

You? Or a friend? Either way, that's not my idea of fun!

[robert7467]

Let's just call him a friend for now. We will call him Jim!

[robert7467]

To make matters worse, the pilot did not file a flight plan!

[kortopates]

#1 - push for best glide speed. Quickly though or you're dead from the stall spin!

If VMC:

#2 - you're not going back to the runway, but look for a place more or less straight ahead to put it down, preferably still in the wind.

#3  - with landing spot picked, slow down to landing speed, only gear down IMO if you have reasonable room to rollout to a stop. 

If IMC and and don't expect much time to get configured once below ceiling, slow down to min sink speed and be ready for impact when you do break out.

[robert7467]

Well, I managed to put her down on the runway without incident! All I can say is aviate! Train for steep turns in the pattern. My BFR that I completed the other day, we were doing 90 degrees in the pattern. This time it was a real life engine out at 400'. Fly with a pilot that has several thousands of hours flying whatever (gliders, glider aerobatics, pushing the envelopes on all aircraft) and you will learn stuff that will save your life. Its controlled physcosis at it's best, but you can learn so much!

[Vno]

So you are saying you did a air turn back to a different runway at 400' AGL??

Brian

[MooneyMitch]

26 minutes ago, robert7467 said:

Well, I managed to put her down on the runway without incident! All I can say is aviate! Train for steep turns in the pattern. My BFR that I completed the other day, we were doing 90 degrees in the pattern. This time it was a real life engine out at 400'. Fly with a pilot that has several thousands of hours flying whatever (gliders, glider aerobatics, pushing the envelopes on all aircraft) and you will learn stuff that will save your life. Its controlled physcosis at it's best, but you can learn so much!

Congratulations on your success!

 Thank you for your suggestions.

I expect an engine out, each departure...... done that for many, many years.  

[kortopates]

Congratulations on getting it back down safely!

But please do elaborate. I assume it wasn't a really a long runway to allow landing straight ahead  if you needed to make a steep turn, but every turn in the pattern is ~90 degrees so that doesn't explain much either unless you were able to make a 90 turn to land on a perpendicular runway. Pardon my confusion......

[carusoam]

Holy Cow Robert!

What happened...

What’s next...

What caused the engine out...

So Many question...

Hope you get time for some discussion... 

Best regards,

-a-

[robert7467]

The mechanic is coming out next week to look at it. Its likely a carb issue. I will let you guys know our findindings. Luckily I did have a little usable runway and was able to land safely.

[RLCarter]

Good job of getting back down, but your posts are confusing, steep turns?, 90°?, usable runway?, 

[robert7467]

5 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Good job of getting back down, but your posts are confusing, steep turns?, 90°?, usable runway?, 

Sorry was little shook up. Yes I had usable runway and landed straight down the runway. Now the turns, the other day during my BFR and we were at a point on downwind and the instructor asked me if I could make the runway, I said yes and pulled back the power. If we were in the Mooney, I could have made it, so I proceeded to turn and wasn't going to make it, so the instructor grabbed the controls and did a 90 degree bank and we made it. Now would I do a 90 degree bank as practice in the pattern, absolutely not. But if I had an emergency and no other option, now I have one. The whole point is, get with a high time, stick and rudder instructor. That mindset of grabbing the bull by the horns, not freezing up and flying the airplane went a long way into yesterday's situation. Now it looks like we are going to do more practice in his Decathlon. There is a lot that I learned on my BFR. I hand flew 2.5 hrs of IMC, when I only had foggle time in the past. Now if I were to inadvertently fly into IMC, I am much more confident in getting out of it. This guy has over 10k hours in small planes, gliders and aerobatics. He had his ATP by the time he entered college and tested out 40 credit hours in 1 semester. As soon as the plane is fixed I am starting my IFR at a flight school, then supplementing instruction with this super pilot. Just little things I picked up from him, collectively add up. I can get more into my flight review, but I know it will stir things up a little on a public forum. Going forward I am sure I am going to do a lot more upset training with him and possibly do some glider time. He has proven to me that day that I couldn't get the plane down with the standard emergency procedures that I have been taught. There is lot lot more for me to learn and I am excited about the next chapters.

[robert7467]

11 hours ago, kortopates said:

#1 - push for best glide speed. Quickly though or you're dead from the stall spin!

If VMC:

#2 - you're not going back to the runway, but look for a place more or less straight ahead to put it down, preferably still in the wind.

#3  - with landing spot picked, slow down to landing speed, only gear down IMO if you have reasonable room to rollout to a stop. 

If IMC and and don't expect much time to get configured once below ceiling, slow down to min sink speed and be ready for impact when you do break 

.

#3  - with landing spot picked, slow down to landing speed, only gear down IMO if you have reasonable room to rollout to a stop.

 

That's one thing he also taught me on my BFR. In an emergency situation wait until the last minute to drop the gear. It's much better to make the runway and land it controlled on its belly vs landing short of the runway. 

[Davidv]

Congrats on a safe landing. Since this is such a rare occurrence (safe turn back at such a low altitude), would you mind elaborating on the airport, runway, wind conditions ect? Also, what model Mooney?

[robert7467]

2 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Congrats on a safe landing. Since this is such a rare occurrence (safe turn back at such a low altitude), would you mind elaborating on the airport, runway, wind conditions ect? Also, what model Mooney?

I didn't turn back on the engine out yesterday. I still had usable runway. I was talking about my BFR experience a couple days ago that got me in the mindset to handle this emergency. This is the first time I flew solo in 5 years and if I didn't have an extreme seat of the pants BFR a couple days ago, then I probably would have frozen up and turned into a yard dart. I was departing KOLV, clear skys and a small headwind.

Now I am reevaluating yesterday watching youtube videos on engine loss on departure. All of them are at 1500'. Its easy to talk about engine outs at 1500'. But at 400'? Whew.. The funny thing is my partner was asking me about what the fuel pressure gauge was reading when this was happening. Things happened so fast, if I even looked at the fuel pressure gauge, I would be dead. Aviate first was what we empathized on my BFR and I think the mindset went a long way in handling this situation.

[Greg_D]

Nice job on getting it down safely!  BTW, there is no such thing as a BFR these days.  The term has simply been flight review for well over a decade now.

[toto]

12 hours ago, robert7467 said:

Engine out on takeoff at 400'.

Any chance you could make this the subject line? This could be a great discussion topic but the subject is sort of vague

[ToddCC22]

AOPA ePilot  just had an article on “ The Impossible Turn” that was an engine failure at 450’. Guy made it back to the departing runway to land. Lucky for him, he was in a Mooney. I don’t think most other planes would have made it. 
https://click.mail.aopa.org/?qs=c8a6d98f0208fe44f9d332373767138b66da5f9f407685949550268ee6de315dab980be6c849d3546c95f7920ee8b1dac5e2891d8335a255
 

in hind sight, I think a left turn to the other runway would have been a safer chance, but he made it. 

[robert7467]

8 minutes ago, toto said:

Any chance you could make this the subject line? This could be a great discussion topic but the subject is sort of vague

Done, like I said, when I first posted this, I was a little on edge so sorry for being all over the place on this post. 

[robert7467]

17 minutes ago, ToddCC22 said:

AOPA ePilot  just had an article on “ The Impossible Turn” that was an engine failure at 450’. Guy made it back to the departing runway to land. Lucky for him, he was in a Mooney. I don’t think most other planes would have made it. 
https://click.mail.aopa.org/?qs=c8a6d98f0208fe44f9d332373767138b66da5f9f407685949550268ee6de315dab980be6c849d3546c95f7920ee8b1dac5e2891d8335a255
 

in hind sight, I think a left turn to the other runway would have been a safer chance, but he made it. 

Great video to watch and evaluate!

[Davidv]

39 minutes ago, robert7467 said:

I didn't turn back on the engine out yesterday. I still had usable runway. I was talking about my BFR experience a couple days ago that got me in the mindset to handle this emergency. This is the first time I flew solo in 5 years and if I didn't have an extreme seat of the pants BFR a couple days ago, then I probably would have frozen up and turned into a yard dart. I was departing KOLV, clear skys and a small headwind.

Now I am reevaluating yesterday watching youtube videos on engine loss on departure. All of them are at 1500'. Its easy to talk about engine outs at 1500'. But at 400'? Whew.. The funny thing is my partner was asking me about what the fuel pressure gauge was reading when this was happening. Things happened so fast, if I even looked at the fuel pressure gauge, I would be dead. Aviate first was what we empathized on my BFR and I think the mindset went a long way in handling this situation.

Oh ok, sorry for missing that above.  This must have been one long runway!  My home field has a 6k foot runway and there is no way I could make a safe landing straight ahead at ‘400 and stop.  When I make my initial turn at ‘500 I’m usually about 5000-5500 feet down the runway.  I climb out at Vx but it’s hot and humid here.  How long was yours?

[Schllc]

Sniff sniff.....

poo yi 

What’s dat smell?

[robert7467]

1 minute ago, Davidv said:

Oh ok, sorry for missing that above.  This must have been one long runway!  My home field has a 6k foot runway and there is no way I could make a safe landing straight ahead at ‘400 and stop.  When I make my initial turn at ‘500 I’m usually about 5000-5500 feet down the runway.  I climb out at Vx but it’s hot and humid here.  How long was yours?

6000' at home base, I was at the point to where I was just about to pull the gear up. Maybe I wasn't as high as 400', but where I was, and where I am normally at that point, 400' is a safe bet. Everything happened so fast, the little details as far as fuel pressure, cylinder head temps and everything else is a blur. Main thing was to stay calm, fly the plane and get the plane back on the ground then reevaluate. 

The bird has pretty much been down for 5 years. It last flew by my partner in December just to move it to the new airport.

Over the past 3 weeks I gave her several run ups and inspected every inch of that plane to make 100% sure that she was airworthy.