50% increase in insurance over last year

[ELT]

Just got a quote from AOPA (used them for 12 years).  Went from $1040.00 last year to $1581 this year.  Same 1966E, hull still at $75,000, same hanger, same paved airport, no accidents or violations,  IFR multi PP with 3400 hours, 3016 retract hours and 600 in type, ICC done in November.  Only negative is low usage this year of 35 hours.

I will be shopping.  A 50% increase is outrageous.  

Is anyone getting these type of increases?

Thanks

Eddie

[alextstone]

Just got a quote from AOPA (used them for 12 years).  Went from $1040.00 last year to $1581 this year.  Same 1966E, hull still at $75,000, same hanger, same paved airport, no accidents or violations,  IFR multi PP with 3400 hours, 3016 retract hours and 600 in type, ICC done in November.  Only negative is low usage this year of 35 hours.
I will be shopping.  A 50% increase is outrageous.  
Is anyone getting these type of increases?
Thanks
Eddie

Let us know how your shipping goes...

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[MIm20c]

I think it’s the 35 hrs. Age?  Also had a big increase and had a low TIT last year. 

[carusoam]

Eddie,  have you met Parker?

He May be able to help you with that...

There have been increases, but not 50%...

Best regards,

-a-

[ELT]

Age 67.  I will try Parker and others.  Low hours due to 3 month annual and lock down.

Thanks

[MIm20c]

I’d pick just one trusted agent and let him search the market. 

[Ragsf15e]

I have an F, insured for $85k.  Very similar time and experience.  Almost the exact same quote you got from aopa, 45% increase. Parker was able to save me about $100 on a slightly better policy.

[Browncbr1]

Dang!  I guess all these tornados cost us all

[Parker_Woodruff]

19 hours ago, ELT said:

Just got a quote from AOPA (used them for 12 years).  Went from $1040.00 last year to $1581 this year.  Same 1966E, hull still at $75,000, same hanger, same paved airport, no accidents or violations,  IFR multi PP with 3400 hours, 3016 retract hours and 600 in type, ICC done in November.  Only negative is low usage this year of 35 hours.

I will be shopping.  A 50% increase is outrageous.  

Is anyone getting these type of increases?

Thanks

Eddie

It's definitely a large increase based on percentage, but the price sounds about right (I'm guessing Global is your carrier) but I'm happy to provide excellent service here at Airspeed.

The real reason is Global was *that far* under market and they realize they can get the price increase without losing the business.

Three aviation carriers went out of biz in a recent 15 month period and one more left light GA back in March...they don't leave if they are making money...

Parker@airspeedinsurance.com

214-295-5055

[Parker_Woodruff]

17 hours ago, carusoam said:

Eddie,  have you met Parker?

He May be able to help you with that...

There have been increases, but not 50%...

Best regards,

-a-

In this case, it's in line as just over $1000 is abnormally low to begin with. 

[ELT]

Actually, the $1040 was the highest I have paid to Global since 2010.  My Aztec was usually about $1600.

[David Lloyd]

Commercial, Instrument, age 69,  5800 retract, 475 make and model.  Last year $983, renewed a few minutes ago for $1562 with Global.  Agent said other quotes were $2500+.  Sigh.

This was me, another insurance thread last week.  I will add that several times over the years Avemco gave me a price between 2 and 3 times what Global did.

[Guest]

One only needs to look at the rate GA pilots are wrecking airplanes and all those tornadoes running through southern airports to understand some of the increases.

Clarence

Edited May 11, 2020 by M20Doc

[MikeOH]

40 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

One only needs to look at the rate GA pilots are wrecking airplanes and all those tornadoes running through southern airports to understand some of the increases.

Clarence

I don't know about tornadoes, but I thought Nall accident report data has shown a decline for the past several years.

[David_H]

This appears to be the beginning of the "we don't really want your business" quotes.

Many will simply write the check thinking that their carrier will continue to stick by them since they stayed loyal to the carrier throughout the years. Once the carrier that they've stayed with for many years exits the market they're in or simply declines to write them a policy, then what?

Insurance carriers are in the business of assessing risks and projecting margins.

Edited May 11, 2020 by David_H

[Parker_Woodruff]

7 hours ago, ELT said:

Actually, the $1040 was the highest I have paid to Global since 2010.  My Aztec was usually about $1600.

I meant compared to the rest of the market...everyone else has been at $1300-1700 or more per year for the same risk...Lots of room higher for Global & still able to hold onto the business.

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I don't know about tornadoes, but I thought Nall accident report data has shown a decline for the past several years.

Per 100,000 hours, yes.  But hours flown are up.  When BasicMed & a good economy got people flying a lot, claims went up when I was an underwriter.  It wasn't directly related to medical issues.  Just a higher quantity of hours.

You could tell people were getting out and flying again...receipts at a lot of maintenance shops were up 30-50% or more.

[MikeOH]

27 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Per 100,000 hours, yes.  But hours flown are up.  When BasicMed & a good economy got people flying a lot, claims went up when I was an underwriter.  It wasn't directly related to medical issues.  Just a higher quantity of hours.

You could tell people were getting out and flying again...receipts at a lot of maintenance shops were up 30-50% or more.

@Parker_Woodruff Did the cost of those claims increase in such an amount that would justify 30-50% rate increases that we are seeing?  I'm sorry, but my cynicism suspects that our dramatic increases are the result of paying for industry losses unrelated to anything we GA pilots have any control over.

[David_H]

28 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Per 100,000 hours, yes.  But hours flown are up.  When BasicMed & a good economy got people flying a lot, claims went up when I was an underwriter.  It wasn't directly related to medical issues.  Just a higher quantity of hours.

You could tell people were getting out and flying again...receipts at a lot of maintenance shops were up 30-50% or more.

It doesn't seem likely that hours flown will be very high this year.

Is it possible or likely that claims not attributed to natural disasters will also decrease?

[David Lloyd]

Like gas prices, insurance rates are quick to rise, slow to come down.

For many years I have benefited from and enjoyed the low insurance rates.  I was amazed the Bonanza's rate was almost unchanged over a 24 year period even though the hull value was increased.  The first year I insured the RV7, the rate was more but came down over the next couple years as I built tailwheel time. The last couple years on that were about 2/3 what the Bo was for the same hull value.  Crazy!

Where do you put your extra money when times are good?  Bank, stock market, real estate, a nicer house, car or airplane?  So do insurance companies. They exist only to make money.  The service they provide is mainly how they do it.  When the stock market sags and tornadoes destroy a couple hundred extra airplanes, they must raise rates to survive and provide the service none of us wants to use. Sucks, but that's what it is.  We had it good for many years.

[Parker_Woodruff]

9 hours ago, MikeOH said:

@Parker_Woodruff Did the cost of those claims increase in such an amount that would justify 30-50% rate increases that we are seeing?  I'm sorry, but my cynicism suspects that our dramatic increases are the result of paying for industry losses unrelated to anything we GA pilots have any control over.

I think so, but not just a cost of each individual claim.

The carriers have experienced numerous catastrophic claims that have finally hit the reinsurance markets (mostly over in Europe).  When the reinsurance bills come due, they have to fill in for that extra expense.

The tornadoes will also hit reinsurance and we'll see if it was bad enough to affect next year's rates.

Boeing's losses paid by insurance (accidents and subsequent grounding liability) is likely in excess of annual insurance premium in all of aviation...

[Parker_Woodruff]

9 hours ago, David_H said:

It doesn't seem likely that hours flown will be very high this year.

Is it possible or likely that claims not attributed to natural disasters will also decrease?

Possibly.  Seems like I'm hearing a mixed bag related to COVID.  Some people aren't flying much, some are flying even more.

[Danb]

We seem way ahead of the insurance companies, how many years has it been since we had more than a nominal increase. Most of our peers got a 10-15% increase. Figure say 4% increase over 10 years would approximate 48%. Ten years at 2% would be 21% total. Many had 15% average increase which equates to 1.5% increase a year, we kicked the insurance companies ass’s.

 

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Possibly.  Seems like I'm hearing a mixed bag related to COVID.  Some people aren't flying much, some are flying even more.

I've heard (maybe wishful thinking) that business aviation is expected to increase as people shy away from airlines. But today the FBO's are dead in my experience.

-Robert

[air cooled dad]

Just wanted to share my insurance numbers.

Insured with Global thru Falcon
2018 Liability $175+60k hull $624=$799
2019 Liability $175+60k hull $734=$909
2020 Liability $184+60k hull $1094=$1278

17000 hrs, ATP, CFII, Seaplane and lots of tail dragger time, 15000+ in retracts, 300 in type, 70 in the last year, multiple heavy jet type ratings, no accidents or claims and I’m still considered young at 47. Hangar as well. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by air cooled dad