Help with Garmin 530W and programming

[Greg Ellis]

I have a Garmin 530W (fairly new to me) and I was given an instruction from ATC on a recent flight and I have no idea how to program it into the GPS.

The instruction was to fly to a certain DME point on a radial off of a VOR.  The flight was from Mobile Alabama to FWS (Fort Worth Spinks)  The actual instruction was to fly to the Frankston VOR (FZT) 334 radial 11 DME.  Then direct DODJE and the REEKO 3 arrival.  I really had no idea how to program the 11 DME point off the 334 degree radial on the Frankston VOR (there is no intersection or Waypoint name of this particular point to put in the GPS).  So after heading in that approximate direction for a few minutes I realized I was going almost direct to DODJE so I asked Longview Approach if I could just go direct DODJE and they cleared me for that.  But I would really like to know how to program the GPS to take me to the 11 DME point on the 334 Radial off of Frankston.  It could be any sort of clearance, not this one in particular I just would like to figure out how to navigate to a point on a certain DME distance on a radial from a VOR that actually does not have a specific intersection name or any other identification other than the DME.

This may sound very simple but the Garmin 530W is relatively new to me and I have flown little IFR flying with it due to other mechanical issues keeping the plane in the shop.  I have read the Garmin manual and the only thing I could see that could work is to try to create a User Waypoint by referencing a existing waypoint which would be the Frankston VOR.  A lot of programming.  After creating it I would then have to get it into the flight plan as well.

Is there an easier way I am missing?

[elimansour]

You can create a user waypoint based on the given  radial and distance.  See page 140 of the manual https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-00357-00_K.pdf

[Greg Ellis]

41 minutes ago, elimansour said:

You can create a user waypoint based on the given  radial and distance.  See page 140 of the manual https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-00357-00_K.pdf

Yes, thanks for the response.  I mentioned that at the end of my post.  Just did not know if there was another way that was easier.

[elimansour]

21 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

Yes, thanks for the response.  I mentioned that at the end of my post.  Just did not know if there was another way that was easier.

Oops.  Sorry - I should read posts more thoroughly.  I guess the length was beyond my ADHD limit!  LOL.

I’m also not aware of any other way to do it.  

[OliverBucher]

Flightplan:

FTZ - DODJE - FWS + PROC REEKO 3

when reaching FTZ push OBS set CRS to Radial 334 and fly this radial to the Distance of the GPS to 11NM (GNS 530W will show the distance to FTZ cause of OBS setting). When reaching 11NM dismiss OBS go to FLP and Mark DODJE. Then Direct - Direct - Enter and you will be guide to DODJE in the Flightplan sequence incl. the arrival ...

If you are flying not so high (e.g. FL500 :-) ) the difference between the slant range of the DME of 11NM to the GPS Distance of 11NM will be no factor :-)

greetings Oliver

Edited March 10, 2020 by OliverBucher

[louisut]

On 3/9/2020 at 7:04 AM, Greg Ellis said:

I have a Garmin 530W (fairly new to me) and I was given an instruction from ATC on a recent flight and I have no idea how to program it into the GPS.

The instruction was to fly to a certain DME point on a radial off of a VOR.  The flight was from Mobile Alabama to FWS (Fort Worth Spinks)  The actual instruction was to fly to the Frankston VOR (FZT) 334 radial 11 DME.  Then direct DODJE and the REEKO 3 arrival.  I really had no idea how to program the 11 DME point off the 334 degree radial on the Frankston VOR (there is no intersection or Waypoint name of this particular point to put in the GPS).  So after heading in that approximate direction for a few minutes I realized I was going almost direct to DODJE so I asked Longview Approach if I could just go direct DODJE and they cleared me for that.  But I would really like to know how to program the GPS to take me to the 11 DME point on the 334 Radial off of Frankston.  It could be any sort of clearance, not this one in particular I just would like to figure out how to navigate to a point on a certain DME distance on a radial from a VOR that actually does not have a specific intersection name or any other identification other than the DME.

This may sound very simple but the Garmin 530W is relatively new to me and I have flown little IFR flying with it due to other mechanical issues keeping the plane in the shop.  I have read the Garmin manual and the only thing I could see that could work is to try to create a User Waypoint by referencing a existing waypoint which would be the Frankston VOR.  A lot of programming.  After creating it I would then have to get it into the flight plan as well.

Is there an easier way I am missing?

No, you got it. If you use Foreflight, you can get started in the right direction by entering FZT/334/11. A Flightstream 210 would make it much easier to program the 530W since you could then send it from Foreflight with one button. It's a nice accessory if you fly IFR often.

Edited March 10, 2020 by louisut

[Greg Ellis]

2 hours ago, louisut said:

No, you got it. If you use Foreflight, you can get started in the right direction by entering FZT/334/11. A Flightstream 210 would make it much easier to program the 530W since you could then send it from Foreflight with one button. It's a nice accessory if you fly IFR often.

Thanks for the response.  I use Garmin Pilot because it talks with my Garmin Transponder for TIS-B and FIS-B.  I will see if Garmin Pilot can do the same thing as Foreflight.  I do not have a Flightstream 210 for it to communicate with the 530 but I could use the ipad to get me going in the right direction then try programming the 530W.  Thanks for your's and everyone else's advice.

[jcovington]

23 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

Thanks for the response.  I use Garmin Pilot because it talks with my Garmin Transponder for TIS-B and FIS-B. 

To enter the Frankston VOR (FZT) 334 radial 11 DME into Garmin Pilot it is FZT334011. I believe it is the same in the GNS530/430.

I get a similar clearance when I fly from El Paso to Tucson. It took some head scratching to remember the first time since it is a fairly uncommon clearance. I asked Albuquerque center the reason for the VOR/radial/dme clearance and they said it was a requirement from Tucson approach.

Jim

[Greg Ellis]

5 hours ago, jcovington said:

To enter the Frankston VOR (FZT) 334 radial 11 DME into Garmin Pilot it is FZT334011. I believe it is the same in the GNS530/430.

I get a similar clearance when I fly from El Paso to Tucson. It took some head scratching to remember the first time since it is a fairly uncommon clearance. I asked Albuquerque center the reason for the VOR/radial/dme clearance and they said it was a requirement from Tucson approach.

Jim

Thank you for that information.  I will try that.  Man...I LOVE this forum!!!

[thinwing]

On 3/9/2020 at 5:04 AM, Greg Ellis said:

I have a Garmin 530W (fairly new to me) and I was given an instruction from ATC on a recent flight and I have no idea how to program it into the GPS.

The instruction was to fly to a certain DME point on a radial off of a VOR.  The flight was from Mobile Alabama to FWS (Fort Worth Spinks)  The actual instruction was to fly to the Frankston VOR (FZT) 334 radial 11 DME.  Then direct DODJE and the REEKO 3 arrival.  I really had no idea how to program the 11 DME point off the 334 degree radial on the Frankston VOR (there is no intersection or Waypoint name of this particular point to put in the GPS).  So after heading in that approximate direction for a few minutes I realized I was going almost direct to DODJE so I asked Longview Approach if I could just go direct DODJE and they cleared me for that.  But I would really like to know how to program the GPS to take me to the 11 DME point on the 334 Radial off of Frankston.  It could be any sort of clearance, not this one in particular I just would like to figure out how to navigate to a point on a certain DME distance on a radial from a VOR that actually does not have a specific intersection name or any other identification other than the DME.

This may sound very simple but the Garmin 530W is relatively new to me and I have flown little IFR flying with it due to other mechanical issues keeping the plane in the shop.  I have read the Garmin manual and the only thing I could see that could work is to try to create a User Waypoint by referencing a existing waypoint which would be the Frankston VOR.  A lot of programming.  After creating it I would then have to get it into the flight plan as well.

Is there an easier way I am missing?

I really hate when I get clearances like this...”cleared to 90 dme ,140 radial ,xyz vor.Controllers don’t realize the programing to create a waypoint like this when they could just as easily route you to a published waypoint.I usually request an initial vector ,and usually follow that with a direct request.

[Greg Ellis]

56 minutes ago, thinwing said:

I really hate when I get clearances like this...”cleared to 90 dme ,140 radial ,xyz vor.Controllers don’t realize the programing to create a waypoint like this when they could just as easily route you to a published waypoint.I usually request an initial vector ,and usually follow that with a direct request.

I agree with you.  I just started to head in the general direction of the VOR and then asked them to give me direct to DODJE which was a fix on the arrival.  Worked out okay.  A few years ago I was picking up my IFR clearance on the ground at Beaumont Airport in Texas.  The initial waypoint on the Clearance was given to me in latitude and longitude!!!!!  I asked them to repeat the clearance and they said the exact same thing.  So I decided to just depart and fly runway heading as instructed and when I got in the air and contacted departure they sent me to an actual waypoint and heading.  I could possibly understand the lat/long given if I was in the middle of nowhere and there was nothing around (maybe in very remote Alaska!!) but I was in south Texas.  There are arrivals and departures and preferred routes, etc... all over the place so it baffled me why I was given lat/long for an initial fix on a clearance.

[Ragsf15e]

In the military we would call that a “fix to fix”.  However, I was under the impression they weren’t supposed to give a non-military aircraft a clearance to a vor radial/dme fix that wasn’t already named unless the previous point was the VOR that the fix is based off.  Ie, proceed to the GEG VOR, then GEG 100 radial, 10 DME fix would be ok.  Proceed directly to GEG 100 Radial, 10 DME fix would not be ok unless I was already directly over the VOR.

In the military, we were taught a pretty intensive way to fly a fix to fix using an HSI and bearing pointer.  A little practice and you can just look at the hsi and choose your heading from wherever you are to whatever fix your given without any help from gps (you do need the vor tuned and set the course indicator to the radial of the fix).  Anyway, rarely used now with gps and all the named points.

So in 25 years and 4000 hours, I’ve never seen this outside a military airplane... do people really get a clearance direct to an unnamed fix from a point other than directly from the VOR station?

[Greg Ellis]

59 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

In the military we would call that a “fix to fix”.  However, I was under the impression they weren’t supposed to give a non-military aircraft a clearance to a vor radial/dme fix that wasn’t already named unless the previous point was the VOR that the fix is based off.  Ie, proceed to the GEG VOR, then GEG 100 radial, 10 DME fix would be ok.  Proceed directly to GEG 100 Radial, 10 DME fix would not be ok unless I was already directly over the VOR.

In the military, we were taught a pretty intensive way to fly a fix to fix using an HSI and bearing pointer.  A little practice and you can just look at the hsi and choose your heading from wherever you are to whatever fix your given without any help from gps (you do need the vor tuned and set the course indicator to the radial of the fix).  Anyway, rarely used now with gps and all the named points.

So in 25 years and 4000 hours, I’ve never seen this outside a military airplane... do people really get a clearance direct to an unnamed fix from a point other than directly from the VOR station?

This is the second time this has happened to me heading east to west through Longview Approach’s airspace heading to Regional Approach airspace around DFW.

[Ragsf15e]

18 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

This is the second time this has happened to me heading east to west through Longview Approach’s airspace heading to Regional Approach airspace around DFW.

Interesting.  I’d think if there was a point out there they like to route people through, they’d just name it and include it in the gps databases.

 I wish we had some atc folks on here who could comment.

[jlunseth]

On 3/9/2020 at 7:03 PM, OliverBucher said:

Flightplan:

FTZ - DODJE - FWS + PROC REEKO 3

when reaching FTZ push OBS set CRS to Radial 334 and fly this radial to the Distance of the GPS to 11NM (GNS 530W will show the distance to FTZ cause of OBS setting). When reaching 11NM dismiss OBS go to FLP and Mark DODJE. Then Direct - Direct - Enter and you will be guide to DODJE in the Flightplan sequence incl. the arrival ...

If you are flying not so high (e.g. FL500 :-) ) the difference between the slant range of the DME of 11NM to the GPS Distance of 11NM will be no factor :-)

greetings Oliver

That’s what I would have done except not as elegantly as Oliver.

[McMooney]

They gave me one of these right as I took off out of kdtn. Something like EMG/10nm/221 radial. Then direct mokpe then as filed

I just went direct mokpe. how the hell was i supposed to ifr climb while fiddling with the gps?  oh yeah the point was like 2 mins in front of me.

why not give me the route while on ground?

.

Edited March 15, 2020 by McMooney

[Greg Ellis]

On 3/9/2020 at 7:03 PM, OliverBucher said:

Flightplan:

FTZ - DODJE - FWS + PROC REEKO 3

when reaching FTZ push OBS set CRS to Radial 334 and fly this radial to the Distance of the GPS to 11NM (GNS 530W will show the distance to FTZ cause of OBS setting). When reaching 11NM dismiss OBS go to FLP and Mark DODJE. Then Direct - Direct - Enter and you will be guide to DODJE in the Flightplan sequence incl. the arrival ...

If you are flying not so high (e.g. FL500 :-) ) the difference between the slant range of the DME of 11NM to the GPS Distance of 11NM will be no factor :-)

greetings Oliver

They did not direct me to fly to the VOR then outbound on the radial to 11 DME.  They told me to go to the 11 DME point on the 334 radial.  Not to the VOR first.

[PT20J]

7 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

They did not direct me to fly to the VOR then outbound on the radial to 11 DME.  They told me to go to the 11 DME point on the 334 radial.  Not to the VOR first.

Well, that changes things. Single pilot IFR is challenging enough without trying to program nearby user waypoints. And even if you have Flightstream and an iPad, it’s difficult to enter waypoints on the iPad touchscreen in anything greater than very light turbulence. I would have said unable and asked for a clearance to a specific intersection, or a vector.

I used to try to do all sorts of things like that because I didn’t want to seem like some inept private pilot. When I mentioned some experiences to my airline pilot friends, they thought I was nuts and said they wouldn’t do that. Made me reconsider.

Skip
 

 

 

[toto]

8 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

They did not direct me to fly to the VOR then outbound on the radial to 11 DME.  They told me to go to the 11 DME point on the 334 radial.  Not to the VOR first.

This is the kind of thing that was really easy on the old VOR-based RNAV computers. You punched in the VOR frequency, radial, and offset, and it created a temporary waypoint as part of a flight plan.

006-08307-0004_4.pdf

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

Well, that changes things. Single pilot IFR is challenging enough without trying to program nearby user waypoints. And even if you have Flightstream and an iPad, it’s difficult to enter waypoints on the iPad touchscreen in anything greater than very light turbulence. I would have said unable and asked for a clearance to a specific intersection, or a vector.

I used to try to do all sorts of things like that because I didn’t want to seem like some inept private pilot. When I mentioned some experiences to my airline pilot friends, they thought I was nuts and said they wouldn’t do that. Made me reconsider.

Skip
 

 

 

I agree with skip wholeheartedly, however I still wanna see if there’s an easy way to type in a fix like that (as mentioned in this thread above).  Like hit direct, type in “GEG 10010” for the GEG 100 radial at 10dme.  Then just hit enter, enter and your off.  I gotta play with it first, never tried it on the 430W.

[PT20J]

Of course, if you really want to one up them, just say, “ Could you give that to me in lat-long?” Response will probably be, “Ah, just fly heading Xxx”

[jlunseth]

Direct the radial and distance, yes that changes things.  I would have put the VOR, radial, and waypoint into my KNS80 and used that to fly direct. It can do that exact thing.  If there is a way to do that with a 530 I am not aware of it.

[StevenL757]

On 3/13/2020 at 6:08 PM, Ragsf15e said:

In the military we would call that a “fix to fix”.  However, I was under the impression they weren’t supposed to give a non-military aircraft a clearance to a vor radial/dme fix that wasn’t already named unless the previous point was the VOR that the fix is based off.  Ie, proceed to the GEG VOR, then GEG 100 radial, 10 DME fix would be ok.  Proceed directly to GEG 100 Radial, 10 DME fix would not be ok unless I was already directly over the VOR.

In the military, we were taught a pretty intensive way to fly a fix to fix using an HSI and bearing pointer.  A little practice and you can just look at the hsi and choose your heading from wherever you are to whatever fix your given without any help from gps (you do need the vor tuned and set the course indicator to the radial of the fix).  Anyway, rarely used now with gps and all the named points.

So in 25 years and 4000 hours, I’ve never seen this outside a military airplane... do people really get a clearance direct to an unnamed fix from a point other than directly from the VOR station?

Great points.  I've never been given a clearance from an unnamed fix, but have received many from a named fix to either a radial or other named fix.  I do like @OliverBucher's take on navigating via an unnamed fix tho...5th post from the top.

Steve

[jlunseth]

So did I except it starts with “when reaching FTZ.”. If you read what the OP said, he was not cleared to the VOR, he was cleared direct to the VOR/radial/distance waypoint.

Edited March 16, 2020 by jlunseth

[StevenL757]

Good point.