Best Mooney pre-buy mechanic or annual mechanic in the midwest

[Pilot boy]

Looking for a good shop to do the pre-buy inspection on an M20 series (when I find one) around the one Midwest.  I'm in Omaha, Nebraska.  I've heard there's a shop up in Minnesota that's good.  Any other suggestions on shops or mechanics near Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Colorado, SD, ND?  I'd probably want to have the plane pre purchase inspection by someone who knows their mooneys.  My shop in Omaha mostly specializes in Cessnas and Pipers.  Thank you everyone and thanks for the response to my other thread on ownership costs of the 20 series, 60s era Mooneys.

[carusoam]

Expect the PPI to occur near where the plane is...

Owners can be a bit quirky about moving planes across the country... to support YOUR needs.

Best regards,

-a-

[BRBENNETT]

these guys know Mooneys very well, including, flight controls, landing gear, fuel tank sealing, etc.  With their staff combined, they probably have 100yrs of experience with the Mooney aircraft.

http://oasisaero.com

[chriscalandro]

What is your budget. 

[mike_elliott]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Expect the PPI to occur near where the plane is...

Owners can be a bit quirky about moving planes across the country... to support YOUR needs.

Best regards,

-a-

and if they are confident in the quality of the plane they are selling, they would welcome Paul or Eric giving it a good PPI as a clean bill from them would all but seal the sale. All costs to re position the the plane should be born by the buyer of course, as you say, it is for his benevolence.

Take it to Oasis. If the seller balks, you balk. They are close to Omaha in Mooney terms. If you find a plane located elsewhere, just ask here on Mooneyspace. People have been known to have opinions here.

[Jerry 5TJ]

In 2017:

As a seller I was fine with moving my plane to a reputable Mooney specialist selected by the buyer—so long as a pro pilot flew the plane there and the buyer paid expenses if he didn’t buy.  The plane was in Minnesota. I agreed to the move to Texas for the inspection.  The deal closed ok.   

As a buyer I insisted on a pre-buy with a nationally recognized expert mechanic so the seller flew his plane from the east coast to Kansas.   It would have been at my expense if the deal failed. It went through.  

So, yes, you can move the plane to your designated inspection site.  Some sellers are comfortable with the idea.  Others are not. 

[RogueOne]

Midwest to Texas for a prebuy?  Nope

[RogueOne]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

and if they are confident in the quality of the plane they are selling, they would welcome Paul or Eric giving it a good PPI as a clean bill from them would all but seal the sale. All costs to re position the the plane should be born by the buyer of course, as you say, it is for his benevolence.

Take it to Oasis. If the seller balks, you balk. They are close to Omaha in Mooney terms. If you find a plane located elsewhere, just ask here on Mooneyspace. People have been known to have opinions here.

Balk away. 

[jaylw314]

58 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

In 2017:

As a seller I was fine with moving my plane to a reputable Mooney specialist selected by the buyer—so long as a pro pilot flew the plane there and the buyer paid expenses if he didn’t buy.  The plane was in Minnesota. I agreed to the move to Texas for the inspection.  The deal closed ok.   

As a buyer I insisted on a pre-buy with a nationally recognized expert mechanic so the seller flew his plane from the east coast to Kansas.   It would have been at my expense if the deal failed. It went through.  

So, yes, you can move the plane to your designated inspection site.  Some sellers are comfortable with the idea.  Others are not. 

Yeah, if I sold, I'd probably only be up for a long-distance PPI if the buyer agreed to pay for expenses BOTH WAYS, regardless of the outcome.  After all, even if the deal closes, I'm going to want to close it in person, not remotely

[mike_elliott]

3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Yeah, if I sold, I'd probably only be up for a long-distance PPI if the buyer agreed to pay for expenses BOTH WAYS, regardless of the outcome.  After all, even if the deal closes, I'm going to want to close it in person, not remotely

Typically, how this works is as a seller, you allow the prospective buyer to fund moving the airplane to the prebuy location of his choice at his expense. Once the prebuy is completed, airworthiness items are typically fixed by the seller, or deducted from the agreed upon price. Other discrepancies are at the buyers option to have taken care of. At this point, the buyer will usually convert the prebuy into an annual at his expense. Closing happens upon completion of a prebuy where the buyer can either 1) accept the plane and fund the rest of escrow, 2)  accept the plane and pay the seller directly, or 3) walk and arrange the return of the plane or forfeit the deposit to cover the expense. You should have an unsuccessful purchase transaction covered in your purchase agreement, as to who pays for escrow, who pays for return of the aircraft etc. and how those monies are to be dispersed.

If you want to be present at the conclusion of the prebuy, that would be on you, regardless of where.

 

 

 

 

[jaylw314]

31 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Typically, how this works is as a seller, you allow the prospective buyer to fund moving the airplane to the prebuy location of his choice at his expense. Once the prebuy is completed, airworthiness items are typically fixed by the seller, or deducted from the agreed upon price. Other discrepancies are at the buyers option to have taken care of. At this point, the buyer will usually convert the prebuy into an annual at his expense. Closing happens upon completion of a prebuy where the buyer can either 1) accept the plane and fund the rest of escrow, 2)  accept the plane and pay the seller directly, or 3) walk and arrange the return of the plane or forfeit the deposit to cover the expense. You should have an unsuccessful purchase transaction covered in your purchase agreement, as to who pays for escrow, who pays for return of the aircraft etc. and how those monies are to be dispersed.

If you want to be present at the conclusion of the prebuy, that would be on you, regardless of where.

Hmm.  I disagree with the statement that prebuy-->annual is the usual course of business.

Yes, I would have an unsuccessful purchase transaction covered in the purchase agreement, either through increasing the amount of earnest cash required or writing in specific terms if it was more than driving distance.

[RogueOne]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

Typically, how this works is as a seller, you allow the prospective buyer to fund moving the airplane to the prebuy location of his choice at his expense. Once the prebuy is completed, airworthiness items are typically fixed by the seller, or deducted from the agreed upon price. Other discrepancies are at the buyers option to have taken care of. At this point, the buyer will usually convert the prebuy into an annual at his expense. Closing happens upon completion of a prebuy where the buyer can either 1) accept the plane and fund the rest of escrow, 2)  accept the plane and pay the seller directly, or 3) walk and arrange the return of the plane or forfeit the deposit to cover the expense. You should have an unsuccessful purchase transaction covered in your purchase agreement, as to who pays for escrow, who pays for return of the aircraft etc. and how those monies are to be dispersed.

If you want to be present at the conclusion of the prebuy, that would be on you, regardless of where.

 

 

 

 

Nope. Not “typical”. It is an agreed location for prebuy. That you find it “reasonable “ to move a plane a thousand miles to be reviewed is simply NOT “typical” no matter how much you say it. There are plenty of good regional shops to complete a prebuy. This ask is fine if you want to do it, but is not expected...

Edited September 3, 2019 by RogueOne

[RogueOne]

5 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

In 2017:

As a seller I was fine with moving my plane to a reputable Mooney specialist selected by the buyer—so long as a pro pilot flew the plane there and the buyer paid expenses if he didn’t buy.  The plane was in Minnesota. I agreed to the move to Texas for the inspection.  The deal closed ok.   

As a buyer I insisted on a pre-buy with a nationally recognized expert mechanic so the seller flew his plane from the east coast to Kansas.   It would have been at my expense if the deal failed. It went through.  

So, yes, you can move the plane to your designated inspection site.  Some sellers are comfortable with the idea.  Others are not. 

Not. That you find it reasonable is fine. That I do not should also be fine....Find a neutral location that is regional. If you can not buy a plane close to home...

[RogueOne]

7 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

What is your budget. 

Crickets...

[Jerry 5TJ]

9 hours ago, RogueOne said:

Midwest to Texas for a prebuy?  Nope

Maybe he tends to fly locally and a cross-country scares him. Hard to know what’s in a seller’s mind until you ask.  

Caveat Emptor. 

[chriscalandro]

if someone wants to fly my airplane across the country for a pre-buy, I think that’s fine as long as you pay loss of use, an oil change when you’re done, all fees, and whatever the value of the additional engine hours are. Hell, I’d be curious what the best Mooney mechanic thought of my airplane on someone else’s dime!

I would guess based on the postings around here, the op budget is probably quite low. Finding the best Mooney person to go over what I’m sure will be an airplane that will need some work one way or another will yield negative results for everyone. 

If you’re not in a 6 figure budget, you don’t need a pre buy that will tell you all the things wrong that will stop it from being a 6 figure machine. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by chriscalandro

[exM20K]

What if things go bad?

As a seller, I’d want a signed purchase agreement and substantial deposit in hand, not with an escrow agent.  The purchase agreement should state that buyer and seller will agree on how to remedy any airworthiness items.  If they can’t, seller returns deposit.  But what if buyer complains about rusty screws and a stain on the seatbelt and demands seller make these repairs?  All while the plane is somewhere else?  Seller is in a bad position.

suppose buyer flakes out, goes dark, and doesn’t pay the shop that did the prebuy?  Now your airplane is somewhere else, with a mechanic’s lein on it.  Ugh.  Escrow agents will, in my experience, almost always return a deposit if a deal breaks.  

Id suggest finding a local Mooney owner and ask him or her who wrenches on their plane.

-de

[carusoam]

Why owners can seem a bit quirky when selling a plane...

 

1) When its a new machine, the TT is often on the seller...

2) For a quarter million... the plane can go across the country, and get an oil change...

3) For 25amu... It may cross county lines, but the oil change is a burden on the buyer...

4) Most expenses are to be bourn by the buyer...

5) First time buyers have a huge learning curve to get past... it’s a huge challenge to just define their mission...

6) The awesome thing about a low cost Mooney... it flys nearly as fast as a brand new Mooney... at way less than a tenth of the cost...

7) Know that the PPI is the best defense of the buyer’s wallet... and it still isn’t perfect...

8) The PPI has no standard, some include testing things in the instrument panel.

9) Many PPIs Go as far as an annual, but that costs more, and depends on the last time it had an annual signed off...

10) Often things don’t go as planned, something will need some level of attention...

11) the purchase agreement often covers what happens next...

12) AW issues are typically the important parts of buying an airplane...

13) non-AW issues are typically in the want to know category of a PPI...

14) The purchase agreement can be hand written and cover everything from where and who is going to perform the PPI, what is going to be covered, who is going to pay for it and how... what would end the PPI, and how the AW issues can be set straight...

15) Sometimes the plane isn’t very old, or it has been cared for like a forever plane... it can soar over a PPI with ease...

16) Somewhere out there is the worst Mooney on the market... best to know how worn it is, before buying it... 

17) There are also less than stellar buyers and less than stellar sellers on the planet... to add to the challenges...

18) For the best Mooney ever bought... Find Ken... no PPIs, just buy the high quality plane...

19) For the worst Mooney ever bought... Find the thread marked F... the FAA... as the new owner found an AW issue, and so did the FAA...

20) the reason for the purchase agreement... There must be about ten things that get discussed when buying a plane... of which about nine of them will be hard to remember what was agreed to...

 

Just some PP thoughts only, not a mechanic or legal expert or airplane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

Anthony, you forgot what I consider the most important point

1) Prebuy the owner.

Most owners of quality planes for sale encourage a prebuy by a competent Mooney expert. They wont be afraid of something going "bad" during a prebuy, as they have proactively maintained the plane. nits such as rusty screws are not airworthy items and should have been identified by the purchaser as a deal breaker prior to ordering a prebuy.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Mooney if the owner would not allow the mechanic of my choosing to do the prebuy. The conversation would be had in the first contact with the owner. Subsequent conversations may or may not follow based on this. Yes if it is an under 6 figure plane, you know you will have a lot of time related issues that keep it from being a new plane. You are after the airworthy items and show stoppers like corrosion, engine metal, etc. and you need to have someone who knows Mooneys well enough to know where to look.

[Pilot boy]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:50 AM, BRBENNETT said:

these guys know Mooneys very well, including, flight controls, landing gear, fuel tank sealing, etc.  With their staff combined, they probably have 100yrs of experience with the Mooney aircraft.

http://oasisaero.com

okay, thank you

[Pilot boy]

21 hours ago, RogueOne said:

Crickets...

i post then revisit to see responses over time.  

[Pilot boy]

On 9/3/2019 at 8:33 AM, chriscalandro said:

What is your budget. 

im looking in the 35 to 60k range.  depends on condition, avionics etc.

[Pilot boy]

16 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

if someone wants to fly my airplane across the country for a pre-buy, I think that’s fine as long as you pay loss of use, an oil change when you’re done, all fees, and whatever the value of the additional engine hours are. Hell, I’d be curious what the best Mooney mechanic thought of my airplane on someone else’s dime!

I would guess based on the postings around here, the op budget is probably quite low. Finding the best Mooney person to go over what I’m sure will be an airplane that will need some work one way or another will yield negative results for everyone. 

If you’re not in a 6 figure budget, you don’t need a pre buy that will tell you all the things wrong that will stop it from being a 6 figure machine. 

60k is probably the max i want to go right now.  this is a first plane, somewhat of a "training" plane to get my instrument and commercial license and fly it afterwards with the family.  i don't really care to buy a 172 or cherokee im gonna get fed up with the slow speed on in a year...looking at mooney, arrows, grumman tigers, beeches etc.

[gsxrpilot]

11 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Mooney if the owner would not allow the mechanic of my choosing to do the prebuy.

This!

[gsxrpilot]

The pool of good vintage Mooneys is just too small to limit the search to "local" aircraft. And the investment is too significant not to get a knowledgeable, Mooney expert to do the pre-buy. (It's likely that the level of investment or financial exposure for someone buying a $50K Mooney is exactly the same as someone buying a $250K Mooney)

There is a handful of shops across the country that I would trust to do a pre-buy. And a seller who wouldn't agree to my choice, wouldn't get a second look from me. I would agree to a purchase price, put 10% of that in cash on deposit with the seller, and have a very detailed, signed purchase agreement. But then the plane would go to the shop of my choice for the pre-buy.

If not, then the owner just failed my "pre-buy" and I'm moving on to someone who isn't afraid of what a good shop might find.