GNC430W and 330ES ADSB

[FastTex]

Hello!

This is what I'm dealing with: I have a GNC430W and a 330ES (upgraded for ADSB by Garmin a few years ago by the former owner). After months of attempt by the radio shop, including the latest 430W firmware upgrade, yesterday I tested it again.

The major differences are: I do not longer receive the NOADSB message from the 330ES and now I can see the ADSB traffic on my 430W (although I'm already equipped with ADSB-IN, this is a plus).

Unfortunately I get a failed report from the FAA, specifically with this red messages:

Has anyone had the same issues? How did you solve it? I think the radio shop ran out of options and I'm almost thinking to buy a Skybeacon, slap it in there and call the day...the radio shop bill won't be cheap and I might be better off doing that!

Thanks,

[bradp]

The most likely thing in my very limited experience is a configuration error if there’s a lot of red. Ie RS-232 is Adsb instead of adsb plus. Likely software first. 

Do you know how to enter the configuration menus for both devices?  A screen shot of each menu would be worth many dollars of uavionix or radio shop time :-).  

Second troubleshooting strategy is to map the pins on the GTX and the GNS.  Not too hard to do with a pair of wires, female dsub pins crumpled to them and a multimeter.  

Another confirm that you’re receiving WAAS.  If you have a portable adsb receiver the submenu of the stratus gives a lot of info about your adsb out and it’s integity so you don’t have to keep submitting faa performance report inquiries.  If the stratus data looks good and the faa inquiry still fails then you are dealing with an issue I how the validation flight is being flown  

radio shop should be able to do this in like an hour or two and come up with the solution.   

[FastTex]

I really didn't do the full blown test flight as recommended by the FAA. I have read around people getting approved with a simple flight. I wasn't sure it was mandatory, I'm going to do that first following exactly  the AC 2 0-165b !

Let's see what happens! Thanks for the feedback.

[bob865]

So I agree with @bradp, sounds like a configuration issue.  This is directly from the ADS-B PAPR:

For my test flight, I didn't do anything really special.  I requested the code on my flight back from getting my tanks sealed.  I only had 25 of rule airspace time, but got an e-mail immediately after saying they were going to manually review and it passed.  As long as it has not failures and you are in rule airspace for at least 30 minutes, you're good.  What you do while you're there doesn't seem to matter much.

Here is the link to the PAPR users guide.  It will give you a good bit on info on what all that stuff means.

[bradp]

@FastTex when I was flying my validation flight incorrectly the first time I had some pass and some fail.  All yours are red ^^^ like @bob865 posted.   I think you need to still look at the configuration.  

[bradp]

Also you’re not seeing ADS-B traffic on the 430.  It’s TIS-A traffic from the mode S transponder.  That means that the shop did two wires on RS-232 (a single channel I believe) so that the transponder can talk back to the 430.  

 

[FastTex]

I think I want to fly inside a class C for at least 30mins. I didn't do that and the list @bob865 sent can be interpreted that way since I have 3 out of 5 parameters failed (partial...).

I will do that next week end and see what happens. 

[FastTex]

1 minute ago, bradp said:

Also you’re not seeing ADS-B traffic on the 430.  It’s TIS-A traffic from the mode S transponder.  That means that the shop did two wires on RS-232 (a single channel I believe) so that the transponder can talk back to the 430.  

Got it! Thanks,

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, FastTex said:

I really didn't do the full blown test flight as recommended by the FAA. I have read around people getting approved with a simple flight. I wasn't sure it was mandatory, I'm going to do that first following exactly  the AC 2 0-165b !

Let's see what happens! Thanks for the feedback.

The "full blown" test flight is only required for the rebate.  It makes sense to iron out all the kinks and gremlins like you're doing before you spend 30 minutes puttering around in rule airspace.

[PaulM]

Those settings are config setting related:  A good partial flight test would give you 100% good but only XX minutes in rule airspace. 

From: 

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/archive/index.php?t-113529.html

GNS/GPS 4XXW/5XXW (e.g. GPS 400W, GNS 430W, GNS 530W)
Main software version 5.03 or later and GPS software version 5.0 or later

GTN 6XX/7XX (e.g. GTN 650 and GTN 750)
Main software version 3.00 or later and GPS software version 5.0 or later

GNS 480
Main software version 2.4 and GPS software version 5.1
Aviation Service Document (http://garmin.blogs.com/files/1519a_asdn.pdf)

GTX 23ES and GTX330ES Transponders
Main software version 7.00 or later (V7.04 released in 2014)

The RS-232 serial output port on the GNS or GTN unit providing position data to the transponder should be set to "ADS-B+" or "ADS-B+ Format 1" when available.

The RS-232 serial input port on a GTX330ES transponder configured to receive ADS-B+ position data from a GNS/GTN unit should be set to "REMOTE".
 

I went and found the GTX330ES installation manual: (ignore the name it is the GTX 3XX manual). 

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Garmin/GTX 3X5 Install Manual REV 5.pdf

page 6-37 for the GNS 4XX  (ADSB-Out+) 

page 6-68 for the GTX330ES (Remote) 

In order for the Transponder to relay the additional accuracy and integrity required by AC 20-165A Version 2 compliant equipment, the GPS unit's RS-232 serial output must be configured to the extended ADS-B format. This is indicated via selections with a “+” in the selections title (i.e., “ADS-B OUT+,” “GTX Mode S+,” “Panel GTX w TIS+”).

 

#1... make sure that the actual ports that are connected on the GNS and the GTX330ES are the same ones configured as specified. 

If anything, turn off the TIS, TAS, etc... just get the ADSB out working.. it should be a dead simple config.. 1 rs232 out to 1 rs232 in..  (diagram on page B-5) 

#2 make sure that all other ports that you aren't using are set to off.  my GTX345 behaved oddly because one of the HSDB ports was left "on" rather than off

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by PaulM

[PaulM]

I would almost guess that the config is trying to use the ARINC429 connection for the GPS data.. (since a 429 connection would be used for the TIS traffic back to the GTN)  but it doesn't include all of the parameters.  It has enough for it to "work" but not to full spec.. which needs that RS232 connection as specified. 

Note: (page 6-67')

In order to be ADS-B Out Version 2 compliant, one of the available RS-232 inputs to the GTX 330/330D must be set to REMOTE and connected to one of the approved position sources listed in GTX 33X and GTX 3X5 ADS-B AML STC Equipment List.

[FastTex]

9 minutes ago, PaulM said:

I would almost guess that the config is trying to use the ARINC429 connection for the GPS data.. (since a 429 connection would be used for the TIS traffic back to the GTN)  but it doesn't include all of the parameters.  It has enough for it to "work" but not to full spec.. which needs that RS232 connection as specified. 

Note: (page 6-67')

In order to be ADS-B Out Version 2 compliant, one of the available RS-232 inputs to the GTX 330/330D must be set to REMOTE and connected to one of the approved position sources listed in GTX 33X and GTX 3X5 ADS-B AML STC Equipment List. 

Thank you so much for all the info! I will check and verify.

[PaulM]

 

1 minute ago, FastTex said:

Thank you so much for all the info! I will check and verify.

And that can be subtle... perhaps they thought they configured it on rs232#1.. but the wire is to rs232#2.. but the ARINC data masks the fact that there is no data on port #x (all names/numbers made up for example)  so it looked good during the original install. 

This is where if it is not obvious... check the wiring and if that shows nothing then do the minimal config.. 1GTN out.. 1 GTX in.. all other GTX ports "OFF"  a mis-wired port will fail in an all "OFF" situation... or if wired correctly but the port is bad in either the GTN or GTX. 

[bradp]

Also if you’re not comfortable doing the trouble shooting steps youslelf might want to ask another radio shop to do it.  This is almost certainly a configuration issue and avionics 101 for a competent shop.  All you have to do is follow the two pages of the installation manual ....