Crash - T-28 hits a Cessna 152 at Compton KCPM

[apenney]

Just learned of this.  Seems that the sun may have played a role.  Haven't heard if they were on CTAF or not.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3qtD1Y8Fs

 

 

 

[RLCarter]

Unbelievable that the T-28 looks un damaged, there will be a civil suit over this one

[aviatoreb]

Ohh that was awful.  :-( !!!

[David_H]

That was indeed terrible.

Edited March 16, 2019 by David_H

[m20kmooney]

This is the reason why we talk. Did the Cessna announce he was clear of the runway? Did anyone talk? Sure doesn’t look like anyone did! That is not the setting to be reticent or deaf and mute!

Edited March 16, 2019 by m20kmooney

[thinwing]

Yikes

[DXB]

Horrible and depressing.

[kmyfm20s]

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/03/fatal-accident-occurred-march-13-2019.html

[thinwing]

Compton has 2 parallel runways ,both 3300 as I recall..considering different approach speeds not sure why both were using same runway

[m20kmooney]

5 hours ago, thinwing said:

Compton has 2 parallel runways ,both 3300 as I recall..considering different approach speeds not sure why both were using same runway

Probably because they were not talking/listening.

[DXB]

I've no basis to know  which pilot wasn't talking and/or wasn't listening here, but I agree someone probably wasn't.  Or maybe someone got the frequency wrong.  Combine blinding direct sunlight on final with a diminutive slow Cessna in front of a big fast tail dragger unable to see ahead on the ground, and we have an utterly pointless tragedy. Dead student pilot, maimed young CFI nearly burned alive.

I flew into a pattern just this past weekend at a small nontowered field and stumbled onto a vintage tail dragger not using a radio.  I  spotted him  as I rapidly closed behind as I entered the downwind. I made a few calls to him on the correct frequency, stating my position and that I had him in sight as I turned out  away from the pattern to give him space, but no response.  The sudden memory of this thread made my hair stand on end.  After we both landed, I almost walked over and said something to the guy, but thought the better of it -  my inability to hide my indignation at that moment would have made the interaction worse than pointless. Plus what he was doing was perfectly legal.

 I just don't get why people do this - why not at least buy a cheap handheld to listen and announce where you are!  I hope this particular part of old school GA culture dies out sooner rather than later.  

[apenney]

45 minutes ago, DXB said:

I hope this particular part of old school GA culture dies out sooner rather than later.  

Yeah, that may literally happen.

 

[m20kmooney]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

I just don't get why people do this - why not at least buy a cheap handheld to listen and announce where you are

Legaly no radio is required when VFR in class E or F. But in this case with B and D airspaces in such close proximity it’s just stupid not to be on the radio. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by m20kmooney

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

I've no basis to know  which pilot wasn't talking and/or wasn't listening here, but I agree someone probably wasn't.  Or maybe someone got the frequency wrong.  Combine blinding direct sunlight on final with a diminutive slow Cessna in front of a big fast tail dragger unable to see ahead on the ground, and we have an utterly pointless tragedy. Dead student pilot, maimed young CFI nearly burned alive.

I flew into a pattern just this past weekend at a small nontowered field and stumbled onto a vintage tail dragger not using a radio.  I  spotted him  as I rapidly closed behind as I entered the downwind. I made a few calls to him on the correct frequency, stating my position and that I had him in sight as I turned out  away from the pattern to give him space, but no response.  The sudden memory of this thread made my hair stand on end.  After we both landed, I almost walked over and said something to the guy, but thought the better of it -  my inability to hide my indignation at that moment would have made the interaction worse than pointless. Plus what he was doing was perfectly legal.

 I just don't get why people do this - why not at least buy a cheap handheld to listen and announce where you are!  I hope this particular part of old school GA culture dies out sooner rather than later.  

There's an older gentleman at my airport who does that whenever he flies.  The saving grace is that he rarely flies.  He has a Cessna 130. 

[Ned Gravel]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

with a diminutive slow Cessna in front of a big fast tail dragger

I know what you are saying, and it still may be difficult to see over the cowl on approach (given the size of the radial engine up front) but a T28 is a tricycle gear aircraft, not a tail dragger.  

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

The last time I flew at my non-towered homedrome I realized only after I landed that my mic cord wasn’t fully seated and that I wasn’t  transmitting.  It was a non issue as I was monitoring the Unicom frequency and the other traffic was monitoring me, but boy did I feel like an ass after the fact.  

Do you mean a Cessna 140, Erik?   The tail dragging predecessor to the 150?

Jim

140.  Yup.

theres three kinds mathematicians - those that can count and those that can’t.

[DXB]

1 hour ago, Ned Gravel said:

I know what you are saying, and it still may be difficult to see over the cowl on approach (given the size of the radial engine up front) but a T28 is a tricycle gear aircraft, not a tail dragger.  

Ah - was thinking of the T6. Obviously I shouldn’t pretend to know anything about military trainers.  But the dude should have  seen what was in front of him on the runway then then!!

Edited March 19, 2019 by DXB

[skydvrboy]

Since we’re all throwing out baseless speculation, I’m going to say they were both making radio calls.  One announced left and the other right and one was mistaken.

[Guest]

The same people who don’t use the radio, likely also don’t have ELT’s, fire extinguishers, never turn on their transponder, do 2 year pitot static checks and join the traffic pattern anywhere they feel like.

Clarence

[Ned Gravel]

10 hours ago, DXB said:

But the dude should have  seen what was in front of him on the runway then then!!

I agree, but he might not have seen the Cessna until he was too close to him to effectively slow down from his somewhat faster rollout speed.  Bad situation all round and someone paid the ultimate price for it. 

For most of us a statistic, but for someone close to them, a hole in their lives where a person once was.  Old soldier saying:  "Weep not for those who have gone, but for those they have left behind."

We had a similar incident in our own area at the beginning of November.  150 turns on final in front of a Cheyanne.  150 does not announce on the downwind or on final on the CTAF.  Cheyenne did announce over the IAF, 5 mins out, and approaching the FAF for the simulated approach.  Almost the same conditions - but no setting sun - it was mid morning.  We lost the 150 pilot sometimes known to not want to talk to anyone while flying - but blame is too easy.

So the community mourns and most of us are reminded to help those who may not see us by telling them where we think we are and what we are doing.  Might have helped - or it might not have helped.  Don't know. See http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/aviation/2018/a18o0150/a18o0150.asp for the progress of the TSB investigation.

Personal reminder nonetheless - using the CTAF can save a life - especially my own.  TSB may find something else, and I will learn from that too, but for now, this is my own take away.

Just me.

Requiescet in pace

[jaylw314]

We have plenty of NORDO traffic around here, with a lot of vintage aircraft like the Grasshopper I had a close encounter with a couple weeks ago.  I heard one one other aircraft making turning final.  I asked him if he was going to be full stop, and he said yes.  So I planned to make a midfield downwind entry, but I heard a scratchy radio transmission that I couldn't make sense of.  I thought I heard one word "helicopter," and CVO uses a discrete CTAF, so I started looking around more out of paranoia.  Sure enough, I spot the Grasshopper about 500 feet ahead and a couple hundred feet below, and I was able to turn away.  He tried making a call and I realized he was saying "grasshopper" instead of "helicopter", but even that close, I still couldn't hear anything else.

Still, the unintelligible radio call clued me in there was something going on, so even a bad radio is better than no radio.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

We have plenty of NORDO traffic around here, with a lot of vintage aircraft like the Grasshopper I had a close encounter with a couple weeks ago.  I heard one one other aircraft making turning final.  I asked him if he was going to be full stop, and he said yes.  So I planned to make a midfield downwind entry, but I heard a scratchy radio transmission that I couldn't make sense of.  I thought I heard one word "helicopter," and CVO uses a discrete CTAF, so I started looking around more out of paranoia.  Sure enough, I spot the Grasshopper about 500 feet ahead and a couple hundred feet below, and I was able to turn away.  He tried making a call and I realized he was saying "grasshopper" instead of "helicopter", but even that close, I still couldn't hear anything else.

Still, the unintelligible radio call clued me in there was something going on, so even a bad radio is better than no radio.

About a year ago my ADSB saved my bacon at my home airport.

The one and only school plane C172 has ADSB and so do I.  I saw on my traffic page an airplane maneuvering not too far from my when I was out and about maybe 20 mi from KPTD - home.  So I filed that away, since in a given evening there may be essentially one or none other airplanes in the 50 miles around my home rural airport (other than those jets way way up).

About 15 min later I am doing my practice approach home to end the day in twighlight and making all my traffic calls, and sure enough I see on my traffic this guy like 2 mi ahead and I am catching fast, both of us on glide slope.  So I was talking to the void asking if anyone is there, knowing there was - no answer.  I broke off maybe a mile out as I had spotted his lights as well.  The kid had no idea I was there.  I know it was a kid since I talked to the school to see who rented.  Not to ball them out or anything but just to FYI that someone should teach the kid to use the radio.

Yay ADSB.  But this won't always be available.

Edited March 19, 2019 by aviatoreb

[DXB]

3 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

We had a similar incident in our own area at the beginning of November.  150 turns on final in front of a Cheyanne.  150 does not announce on the downwind or on final on the CTAF.  Cheyenne did announce over the IAF, 5 mins out, and approaching the FAF for the simulated approach.  Almost the same conditions - but no setting sun - it was mid morning.  We lost the 150 pilot sometimes known to not want to talk to anyone while flying - but blame is too easy.

The practice or real instrument approach into an active pattern at a non-towered field seems like another one of those accident-prone scenarios. Folks coming straight in and land while I'm established in the pattern of a field that's VFR are irksome, but at least they are generally talking. I call that "I'm landing straight in if there's no one in pattern" multiple times from the FAF and beyond if I don't hear or see anyone,or announce intention to overfly and enter the pattern if I know someone is there.  But that doesn't preclude missing someone who isn't talking, or a radio not working, or other communication snag.  A lap in the pattern every time if the clouds are well above may be a better practice.  

[thinwing]

If I’m doing practice w approaches to an uncontrolled field,chances are I’m being vectored by approach controller,who generally knows if there is anybody else in the pattern.If that is the case...I would never complete a straight in.More common is an actual IFR approach and someone is shooting touch and goes under a 1000 ft overcast.I have been yelled at by some yahoo doing this under a 600 ft overcast and I was forced to have a “talk” about airspace rules and what a dashed magenta line surrounding the airport .His belief was that as long as he was clear of clouds he had right of way.

[neilpilot]

24 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Does anyone know what happened to the taildragger pilot?

News report:  The pilot of the T-28 did not sustain any injuries in the incident, the Sheriff's Department said.