Blank Panel From Mooney

[alextstone]

Now that I have repaired all known deferred mechanical maintenance in my Bravo, I am starting to plan a three phase panel upgrade (

Phase 1: engine monitor (most probably a JPI 900 or 930) and rearrange/eliminate existing instruments

Phase 2: second Aspen 1000 Pro and upgrade to MAX 

Phase 3: possible upgrade to GFC 500 autopilot

 

Here's what how my panel is arranged now:

 

 

I found a mention in the Mooney Bravo parts catalog for both a blank instrument panel:

 

Does anyone have experience with this generic panel? What are your thoughts as to cost, etc?

Also, there is a mention of a REDUCED PANEL CONFIGURATION (see below). What is this?  Is it possible to somehow lower the height of the panel and gain better visibility as is case in GX models?

 

 

[kortopates]

Any good avionics shop doing a new panel is quite capable of CNC'ing a new panel customized to whatever you and the shop arrive at for the layout. They can cut it to your panel dimensions just as easily as they can cut the holes for your new instruments/glass. Changing the dimensions though I can't help but I would expect to be much more involved than just the panel.

[Bryan]

I’d get in the list now for the MAX upgrade. It should be an easy upgrade of you have the 1000 Pro today.

You might consider just replacing your cluster today with the 900 without panel mods then do the total panel recut when you decide on the GFC 500 upgrade.

Its gonna cost more to do the phases so my above plan could get you the quickest bang for the buck, now.

[M20F]

I had read a lot on JPI and EI but really there is no practical way to get experience with both.  You will certainly get feedback from owners of the respective products but that doesn’t help contrast.  

I asked Maxwell and he said go EI so that is what I put in.  Haven’t been disappointed.  The engine monitor part is a little over rated but getting rid of all the old gauges for digital is very worth it. 

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, alextstone said:

Now that I have repaired all known deferred mechanical maintenance in my Bravo, I am starting to plan a three phase panel upgrade (

Phase 1: engine monitor (most probably a JPI 900 or 930) and rearrange/eliminate existing instruments

Phase 2: second Aspen 1000 Pro and upgrade to MAX 

Phase 3: possible upgrade to GFC 500 autopilot

 

Here's what how my panel is arranged now:

 

 

I found a mention in the Mooney Bravo parts catalog for both a blank instrument panel:

 

Does anyone have experience with this generic panel? What are your thoughts as to cost, etc?

Also, there is a mention of a REDUCED PANEL CONFIGURATION (see below). What is this?  Is it possible to somehow lower the height of the panel and gain better visibility as is case in GX models?

 

 

You wont be able to lower the panel any (note the screws holding up your panel at the top, you have a structural bar they bolt to behind there) to gain more forward vis. @chocks can make panels and does a great job on them from what I have seen of his work.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, alextstone said:

Now that I have repaired all known deferred mechanical maintenance in my Bravo, I am starting to plan a three phase panel upgrade ( You have M20M Serial number 0201. I used to own 0209 and currently own 0150 so I'm very familiar with your panel.

Phase 1: engine monitor (most probably a JPI 900 or 930) and rearrange/eliminate existing instruments As Bryan mentions the JPI 900 will fit, mounted vertically, where the factory gauges are until Phase 3, when you decide completely what all you want. Plan this carefully so you only have to cut one panel.

Phase 2: second Aspen 1000 Pro and upgrade to MAX  The second Aspen would be an MFD1000. That will surface mount, just like the first Aspen, until you decide to cut a new panel. If you want to keep the Altitude Pre-Select you;'ll have to keep the encoding Altimeter that you have, but it can be moved down to where your turn coordinator is, since that is not required with the Aspens. Pick out your shop and take advantage of the special upgrade Aspen is offering on the MAX upgrade. You have to pay for it now and get in line. People who did it last week were told late September delivery.

Phase 3: possible upgrade to GFC 500 autopilot  If you haven't read up on the GFC500, there are at least three things that you should keep in mind. 1) At present time they won't work with your Aspen(s), and it's doubtful they ever will since Garmin uses the G5 with the GFC500. 2) With the GFC 500 if you lose GPS signal you lose the ability to fly a autopilot coupled approach of any kind, including an ILS. 3) If your KFC150 is working properly it is a rock solid autopilot. If it is not have only someone who specializes in King autopilots touch it. It is a digital autopilot and very precise. With the Aspens you have GPS Steering, so for what you spend vs. what you would gain, I don't see the advantage. 

Does anyone have experience with this generic panel? What are your thoughts as to cost, etc? As Kortopates mentions any good avionics shop can fabriacte a custom panel 

Also, there is a mention of a REDUCED PANEL CONFIGURATION (see below). What is this?  Is it possible to somehow lower the height of the panel and gain better visibility as is case in GX models? No, everything behind the panel, all of the structure, would also have to be modified. This would be major. You'd be better off modifying the pilot's seat if necessary. 

 

[alextstone]

Thanks for the great responses!

  @LANCECASPER, your feedback helped a lot! Did you install a JPI 900 in your plane?  Do you have any photos if so?  Thanks for the info on the GFC 500 / Aspen interface.  My KFC 150 needs a little attention but after hearing from you, I will invest in that instead of a new autopilot.

 

[LANCECASPER]

11 hours ago, alextstone said:

Thanks for the great responses!

  @LANCECASPER, your feedback helped a lot! Did you install a JPI 900 in your plane?  Do you have any photos if so?  Thanks for the info on the GFC 500 / Aspen interface.  My KFC 150 needs a little attention but after hearing from you, I will invest in that instead of a new autopilot.

 

I haven't installed a 900 yet, but will do it when I cut a new panel or I might put it on the right side and go with the larger JPI EDM 930. My JPI is on that side now and I'm fine with the location. I will probably use existing JPI EGT/CHT/TIT probes since they are the same ones included in the new kit, which should save some labor. Remaining to hook up would be MP, RPM, move my fuel flow from the Shadin to the JPI, etc. I will probably go with CIES senders (4 of them in the M20M, $1550) in my tanks also. @Jeevquoted me between 21 and 28 hours (@ $90/hr) to do the JPI and the CIES senders which I though was very fair.

In the meantime,  all my factory gauges work and my JPI EDM 700 monitors the engine well, my fuel totalizer is accurate, so no huge rush. I pretty much have everything I want in the panel, but eventually, like you,  I'd like to cut a new panel. This would allow me to flush mount the Aspens and re-arrange a few other things. Just to cut a new panel and all of the labor to re-arrange what I have is going to be $4500, so I keep telling myself, "It won't be one knot faster with a new panel, it won't be one knot faster with a new panel".

I already have ADS-B in and out so I would rather wait til the ADS-B rush is over. I've already written a $6000 check to do the MAX upgrade on all three Aspens (they all have to be upgraded when you do the upgrade). I've already bought a WX-500 stormscope which will display on other screens to replace the in-panel WX-1000. At some point I'll probably buy the JPI when there's a great deal, maybe Oshkosh.Probably sometime in 2020 I'll take the leap.

(One advantage you have (since you are past serial number 184) is that your external lighting switches are overhead so that frees up a little space from the far left side of the left panel (below the clock). Mine are still over there so it's going to require a little more careful planning to fit everything in and make it look right.)

 

Here's an example of a panel on an early Bravo (not my airplane) where the owner put in a G500 display but left the original engine instruments in. Later he put in a new JPI EDM 900 without cutting a new panel and was able to do it in horizontal mode. So it's good to plan it out ahead of time so you "measure twice and cut once". But if all of your gauges are working a new JPI EDM 900 won't tell you anything that your current gauges and your JPI aren't telling you now. When your gauges start going, on the early Bravos (Pre Moritz gauge Mooneys) you can replace one gauge at a time, however eventually you clearly hear the message your Mooneys is sending you . . . "Buy me a JPI Primary".

 

[MIm20c]

If you want you can buy a blank panel from Mooney that will allow the fabrication to be expedited, some come with the mounting holes and switches already cut.