TIRADE OVER HOUSTON

[John Pleisse]

N4352H-The stuck mike is a completely separate issue from the tirade.  It would set a really interesting president... Convicting a pilot for a mechanical issue... Have you thought this through?  I hope that your equipment is maintained to a higher standard then SWA's... I'd bet that in the absence of the tirade, you'd probably not even be mentioning it.

Ross, if he dinged a landing, that's a mistake too. If he were busy talking about the weather and forgot to deploy slats...same thing. There were thousands of planes in the sky not doing what he did. He was careless with a big airplane full of people. Thank GOD it was only the mic button. Even our posts here on this website have consequences. He should have been canned.

[John Pleisse]

Since he is so "unteachable" as many have said and will likely never evolve into anything better (such a cynical and typically false POV), what do the "deciders" think is an acceptable place for him in society? Bus driver, trash man?  Perhaps he should just be euthanized?

Airline Pilot? No. His own talk show on the Playboy Channel? Maybe webcast his points of view? Great career option.

[Becca]

@Shardach, we're not talking about "legislating morality" here, an employer can't "legislate" anything, they aren't a government.  They can, however, have an expected level of professional conduct or any number of other things (e.g. Chick Fila can have prayers before its staff meetings).  If you choose not to follow those corporate policies, your employer can ignore it, discipline you or fire you, they can't send you to jail (unless you also break the law).  So then the question is how serious is SWA about enforcing these corporate policies (which surely includes respect for coworkers while on the job).  I am sure he didn't expect to be caught behaving this way at work in the cockpit, but he did get caught and he was on the job and there should be consequences, you can't just ignore it saying "well, he didn't INTEND on anyone finding out he broke the rules".   We don't know if his FO wanted to listen to this rant or was just being polite because he was stuck on a month of trips with this douche and couldn't leave the cockpit.  What I do know is that kind of conversation is inappropriate in the work place even when you think you are "safe" from someone over hearing it, and maybe some consequences means the next guy thinks twice before talking like that while at work.

[Hank]

Meanwhile, Becca, I am at work right now, and YOUR incessant tirade is offending me. So should you be fired, too?

[alex]

How about a beer summit! Utter something stupid, invite them for a drink, problem solved... All this  PC is nothing but BS. The biggest crime here was the stuck mike wich can happen to anyone. If offensive speech during work is enough to get someone fired, why is Biden still on the job?  Shadrack has it right, get over it. By the way hank did you happen to get the registration of  the airplane with the stuck mike? That CFI needs to get FIRED.

[AlexR]

Becca - Per Texas press, NOW and several Gay, Lesbian and Trans-gender groups have called for his dismissal based on his "hate speech".  Some went as far as saying they "fear for their lives flying on SWA" if the guy is not fired...please...as if this guy wants to kamakazi the plane in because he has women and homosexuals aboard.   That is just plain stupid.  These groups make there money by making minorities into victims rather than empowering them.   In your first post you wrote about male airline pilots as "cavemen" and "heathens" who require "public and rigid disciplining."  As a male and former 121 pilot I could be offended by your "hate speech" against my 'group.'  If you wrote that at work, should you be fired for "verbally abusing" me?  Of course not, I respect your point of view.  But, as you can see, its a very slippery slope...Cheers.

 

Caveman.  I hope he gets fired.  I am sure he's not the only one who has expressed these sentiments just the only one stupid enough to get recorded doing it on the job, but maybe a public and rigid disciplining will be a lesson to other pilots to get their act together and stop behaving like heathens. 

[Hank]

I've worked with people I didn't like, and with people I didn't respect, and sometimes felt both about a single coworker. I'm also pretty sure that it has gone both ways, people being people and not everyone alike. It's a fact of life, you deal with it. I am paid to do a job, not to like all of my coworkers. Good thing, too . . .

There are no laws against having unpopular opinions. Some of my coworkers think it is dangerous to fly an airplane, and that we should be required to have landing reservations everywhere we go. This opinion is based on a complete lack of knowledge, and I discussed it with him in a manner that he could relate to. Should I have kept silent? Was talking to him about it "risking my job"? There can be no discussion without introducing traces of personality, that which makes me me instead of you, and no, Archie Bunker, I am not interested in stifling myself.

There are also no laws against offending anyone. If there were, that would offend me, and the law would become illegal. I don't agree with many opinions I hear expressed on a daily basis, and I'm sure my coworkers don't agree with all of mine. So let's just fire everybody, and go on welfare and unemployment. I talk, someone disagrees, we both get fired. See how good that works? No, wait--only fire the person who offends someone else. Great, that will be the first person to speak. Open mouth, insert foot, stir with pink slip. No thank you, just send food stamps and I'll stay home and avoid the hassle.

[Hank]

Do I agree with him? No.

Do I think he should be disciplined for expressing his opinion? No. If so, then everyone should be disciplined in the same manner for expressing any opinion on any subject that is not 100% in line with whatever the official corporate statement says on that subject, and I have no clue what my employer, or any others, collectively think about very many subjects at all.

Political Correctness has gone way overboard in this country. There is no right to never be offended by anyone, anywhere, at any time, ESPECIALLY when the "offender" is not speaking to you. How do you think the SWA boor would feel reading the comments posted here about him? Fire us all!!

I'm off of this soapbox now, too.

[jelswick]

Thank you Hank and completely agree.  Some of the stuff in these posts is a little scary as far as where we're headed.  Maybe we humans just are not qualified to be in a work environment because I might say I'd like coffee and offend someone that likes tea by that statement, etc.  People are wound way to tight and if they had their way, the only thing qualified to work would be robots programmed to state only completely PC things that have been preapproved by the programmers (might offend someone still though).  Ridiculous.  People need to quit trying to regulate what is in our minds and personalities.  As people, we'll make mistakes.  Look at the situation and whether there was really intent to offend anyone.  Good grief...

[Becca]

Wow, this is making me glad I became an engineer and not a pilot for a living.  The guys around here had the common sense to take the pinup girls off the walls in the early 80s.  Guess its still ok in the cockpit. 

My hate speech wasn't directed at all pilots, after all, I married one.  The "caveman" and "heathen" comment was addressing this specific pilot and I stand by it.  This type of conversation does not belong in a work place, and doesn't even belong in a bar, but you can punish someone for what they say in a bar, but in the workplace  I continue to hope that when it comes to the attention of employers they continue to discipline it.   I wouldn't fear for my life as a passenger on this airplane, however if I was a FA (pretty and straight or ugly and gay), I would fear how this particular captain would treat me based on whether he judges me as "doable" or not, and that is an employer's problem.  That's why these conversations are out of place in the work place because they interfere with your ability to successfully work with your collegues. 

But if you think its ok to say this sort of thing whenever and to whoever you want at any time, well, I guess that's ok too.  I just wouldn't hire you to work for me and I certainly would never let myself get trapped in a cockpit with you or put myself in a position where I have to listen to it.  Call it PC if you will, I call it basic human decency not to speak about people you work with like that.

[Becca]

Wow, this is making me glad I became an engineer and not a pilot for a living.  The guys around here had the common sense to take the pinup girls off the walls in the early 80s.  Guess its still ok in the cockpit. 

My hate speech wasn't directed at all pilots, after all, I married one.  The "caveman" and "heathen" comment was addressing this specific pilot and I stand by it.  This type of conversation does not belong in a work place, and doesn't even belong in a bar, but you can punish someone for what they say in a bar, but in the workplace  I continue to hope that when it comes to the attention of employers they continue to discipline it.   I wouldn't fear for my life as a passenger on this airplane, however if I was a FA (pretty and straight or ugly and gay), I would fear how this particular captain would treat me based on whether he judges me as "doable" or not, and that is an employer's problem.  That's why these conversations are out of place in the work place because they interfere with your ability to successfully work with your collegues. 

But if you think its ok to say this sort of thing whenever and to whoever you want at any time, well, I guess that's ok too.  I just wouldn't hire you to work for me and I certainly would never let myself get trapped in a cockpit with you or put myself in a position where I have to listen to it.  Call it PC if you will, I call it basic human decency not to speak about people you work with like that.

[John Pleisse]

There seems to be this notion that this was some poor, hapless soul whose mic button got stuck. An honest mechanical malfunction and the poor fellow got punk'ed. Says who? I don't care about his politics. He was in charge of a 737 not paying attention, making a 10 hour solo pilot mistake, stinking up a radio frequency needed for other aircraft. It's his flying, not his opinions.

[DaV8or]

SWA has every right to disapline or fire this guy if they want. Their image has been tanished and it may temporarily cost them some ticket sales, but that will pass. Of more concern to them is how well he can work in the cockpit with others. Imagine different FO scenarios with this guy as captain. In one scenario, the FO is a knock out georgous woman. Chances are, this guy is going to try to take advantage of the trapped environment to hit on this woman. 99 times out of hundred, this will result in her shooting him down and an awkward cockpit and poor work place. Now imagine an older less attractive female FO, now it's just awkward from the get go. He has to watch what he says and can't talk about the things he'd like to. Resents her for just being there. Is he going to go easy on her? Is it going to be a pleasent trip? I doubt it. Last consider the openly gay male FO, this really doesn't bode well for a harmoneous cockpit. If the FO isn't straight male Good ol' Boy, or a hot woman who responds well to his advances, odds are it's going to be a bumpy ride and time has shown that when the captain and the FO don't function well together, things can go really wrong.

What's SWA to do? Fire him? As has been already pointed out, that would be difficult and they have a lot already invested in him, so only in the event that this turns into a huge media circus and a big black eye for the airline should they work to let him go. Bottom line here is it's a business that depends on sales to the public. Public image matters. 

What they should do IMO, is keep an eye on him and test him by mixing up his crew members and see how it goes. If he proves reliable with a variety of FOs then they should suck it up and live with the competent jack ass he is. If he proves to be a crappy captain, then pass on raises, give him crappy routes and shifts and eventually he'll go away and be sombody else's problem.

[Skyatty]

Becca:

I'm curious whether your reaction is primarily to his delivery or the content that underlies his tirade.  In other words, if he said "You know, I'm a single guy and one of the reasons I thought it would be cool to be a pilot is that I heard stories that pilots had a lot of relationships with flight attendants. But most of the time it seems that our crew is older than I prefer, more overweight than I prefer or are homosexuals, which I am not comfortable hanging out with.  So the bottom line is that I haven't had much of a social life at all on trips the last few months.  I went out with a couple of women but it was a very negative experience.  I'm hoping my new duty station brings some changes."  

I think that is the essence of his comments.  He just peppered them with objectionable terms like "fags," "grannies" and "fatties?" and plenty of words that will not be heard on network television.

I have to say that if we fired everyone who utters stupid or insensitive comments in the workplace, the unemployment rate would be substantially higher.  This guy may rate firing but not for these particular comments but because he was identified easily by co-workers, which suggests that perhaps these are common comments for him.  I suspect that SWA, like many large corporations, has policies against comments that create a hostile workplace.  The collective bargaining agreement, however, will generally trump those policies and SWA will have to follow those terms and guidelines.

California is also an "at-will" state and yet few employers feel comfortable simply firing employees.  There are too many ways that an employer can be ensnared is very costly litigation by doing so.  "At-will" always sounds good to the layman, but the state of employment decisions around the country make employee terminations very tricky.

I spoke to a Delta driver friend and he said that cockpit conversations should never be heard outside the cockpit.  People sharing a small space together for 2-14 hours will share all kinds of information that they would not want made public.  If every pilot were fired for saying something offensive or insensitive in the cockpit there would be a lot more opportunities for young pilots to get jobs with the airlines.

[Shadrach]

I hope this thread dies with each and every "straw-man" that it has birthed...

No one here knows the circumstances of the stuck mike and I do not think the his radio displays a little "T" like my KX165s do when I'm transmitting.

 

No one here has suggested that it is permissible to walk around the work place “saying this sort of thing whenever and to whomever you want, at any time”...

 

No one here can speak for the FO, if he was truly offended by the comments, don't you think he'd be displaying at least as much "outrage" as the "offended" folks on this board???

 

SWA has the "right" to start whatever process is outlined in the union member's CBA to deal with these circumstances. I am sure there are metrics that need to be met to justify termination...either he did not meet them, or they felt that a suspension was adequate under the circumstances...

 

 

 

 

[FloridaMan]

It looks like SWA has started retrofitting cockpits in light of this:

[FloridaMan]

Dammit. I guess I can't embed.

[FloridaMan]

...or edit...

[John Pleisse]

LMFAO!!!