preciseflight speed brakes

[R4dpilot]

I just got my 201 out of the paint shop and the left speed brake doesn't operate. The shop painted the top of the speed break(red) but don't think they painted the rest of it. I understand one cannot operate the brake manually, so I am not sure how to proceed. I am in eastern Ohio and would like to find someone who has experience with speed brakes. HELP!

[TerryDubYa]

Any sounds coming from the inoperative brake?  

[Txbyker]

30 minutes ago, R4dpilot said:

I just got my 201 out of the paint shop and the left speed brake doesn't operate. The shop painted the top of the speed break(red) but don't think they painted the rest of it. I understand one cannot operate the brake manually, so I am not sure how to proceed. I am in eastern Ohio and would like to find someone who has experience with speed brakes. HELP!

Check the metal frame on the top and make sure the paint shop put it back on so that it doesn’t create interference.

[R4dpilot]

2 hours ago, TerryDubYa said:

Any sounds coming from the inoperative brake?  

yes I can hear the motor running, Tried it several times and on the 3rd try it kicked the breaker

 

2 hours ago, Txbyker said:

Check the metal frame on the top and make sure the paint shop put it back on so that it doesn’t create interference.

 

[R4dpilot]

2 hours ago, Txbyker said:

Check the metal frame on the top and make sure the paint shop put it back on so that it doesn’t create interference.

I don't think they removed anything to paint it. My guess is that they either manually extended the brake or the two pieces are stuck together from the paint. Do you know if it is safe to try to manually move the brake? I know it specifically says not to do so

[kortopates]

If you have the electric speed brakes (sounds like you do) it’ll need to pulled and sent into Precise for service. Give them a call to verify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[orionflt]

29 minutes ago, R4dpilot said:

I don't think they removed anything to paint it. My guess is that they either manually extended the brake or the two pieces are stuck together from the paint. Do you know if it is safe to try to manually move the brake? I know it specifically says not to do so

if it is just the two blades of the speed break painted together then you can take a razor knife or blade and run it down between the two bleades freeing them from each other with out damaging the new paint. if it is in the mechanism I recommend removing the brake for inspection  

Brian

[R4dpilot]

1 minute ago, orionflt said:

if it is just the two blades of the speed break painted together then you can take a razor knife or blade and run it down between the two bleades freeing them from each other with out damaging the new paint. if it is in the mechanism I recommend removing the brake for inspection  

Broan

Do you know of a shop that is familiar with these? I want to take to someone that knows what they are doing.

[milotron]

On my older, electric 1000 series speed brakes, the arms can be manually moved with the power off. The clutches are not engaged when the power is off so no damage can occur.

The newer ones ( 2000 series ) or vacuum models may be different.

Just my experience, not saying that it is right...and I sometimes break more then I fix...

 

iain

[orionflt]

1 minute ago, R4dpilot said:

Do you know of a shop that is familiar with these? I want to take to someone that knows what they are doing.

not in your general area, if you want to fly a few hour and bring it to eastern PA I would be glad to help.

I'm at KUKT.

Brian

[carusoam]

Check the last time your brake’s clutches were serviced...

If they haven’t been, Now is probably the time.

As the clutches wear, they have difficulty even resisting the force of gravity.  Just before that occurs... resisting errant paint would be a challenge...

The brake cartridges are held in place using screws...

Sounds like you may be going to be speaking with your paint guy for the best way to remove and replace speed brakes...

Best regards,

-a-

[R4dpilot]

3 hours ago, orionflt said:

not in your general area, if you want to fly a few hour and bring it to eastern PA I would be glad to help.

I'm at KUKT.

Brian

I have no problem flying to Quakertown. I go to Reading often as I fly for the Museum there so no problem. Not sure the next time I will be there, but I would appreciate the help. Let me know how to get in touch with you. Thanks

[R4dpilot]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Check the last time your brake’s clutches were serviced...

If they haven’t been, Now is probably the time.

As the clutches wear, they have difficulty even resisting the force of gravity.  Just before that occurs... resisting errant paint would be a challenge...

The brake cartridges are held in place using screws...

Sounds like you may be going to be speaking with your paint guy for the best way to remove and replace speed brakes...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for the advice. You are right it is time to have them serviced. Now I have to figure out how to remove them or take it to someone who can.

[carusoam]

R4,

See if this helps...

It has the installation manual... in a .pfd format...

https://www.preciseflight.com/support/documents/08059-mooney-m20-series-speedbrake-installation-ma/

Your favorite mechanic should be able to remove and send out, followed by reinstall.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[m20kmooney]

18 hours ago, R4dpilot said:

I just got my 201 out of the paint shop and the left speed brake doesn't operate. The shop painted the top of the speed break(red) but don't think they painted the rest of it. I understand one cannot operate the brake manually, so I am not sure how to proceed. I am in eastern Ohio and would like to find someone who has experience with speed brakes. HELP!

R4 it's a good idea to send the inop one or even both brakes to Precise Flight. They will service them and also perform a couple of mods they've come up with since they were originally manufactured. You'll get them back better than new. I'm still confused why the shop painted them! If you do send them out and want to fly the plane be sure to fabricate and install aluminum blanks to closeup wing.

Edited December 30, 2018 by m20kmooney

[N201MKTurbo]

I have the electric speed brakes. There is no harm raising them manually as long as the clutch is disengaged. They should move easily. You should only be working against the clock spring that retracts them on a power failure. 

The problem with removing them is you will ruin your new paint job. 

I hope they didn’t fill them with paint stripper residue when they were stripping the plane.

[SantosDumont]

This happened to my left speed brake earlier this year. Probably need a A&P sign-off to instal it, but it just unscrews and you send it to PreciseFlight to get repaired. I think they charged me $1k. In the meantime I just speed taped the hole and INOPed the switch. 

[PT20J]

I notice that Precise Flight says to remove them annually for inspection and lube. Does anybody actually do that?

Also curious how much others use their speed brakes. I find that I rarely use them unless I’m helping out ATC or I screwed up my descent planning. But then my previous ‘78 J which I flew for seven years, and the C I flew before that, didn’t have them. So, maybe I’m missing something. 

Skip

[DonMuncy]

I think that most of us who have them seldom use them. But when we do need them they are pretty helpful. When I bought my plane, they were on the "almost must have" list. Now, after 18 years, they have moved down to "nice to have but I probably wouldn't install them".

[milotron]

I have only had my K for 3 years now.

I trained and plan to 'not' use them, but they are handy in a pinch for slam dunk approaches or when ATC forgets to clear you to descend. I look at them as another tool in the box.

iain

[Bryan]

I have electric brakes in my 252. I had a similar issue where one went up during preflight runup but would not go down. In order to complete the flight, it had to be manually retracted with the power off and then did not work after that - no sounds after stuck. I removed them and sent them off to precise flight - they have them now. They will request both for servicing them. They will inspect and quote you a fix list. Mine cost about $1400 for full service and replacement of a motor with all the clutches serviced and new springs and hardware installed.

Mine are the “100 series” and are bottom loading. They are easily removed with about 10-12 screws on top and removal of access panel below. Two more screws and they drop right out with a quick-connector to disconnect plug. Like the suggestion above, we used a metal blank to cover the hole from the inside to continue flying. 

Mine should be shipped back later this week. They told me they would be out of the office the first part of this week and back on 02-Jan.

[SantosDumont]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

I notice that Precise Flight says to remove them annually for inspection and lube. Does anybody actually do that?

Also curious how much others use their speed brakes. I find that I rarely use them unless I’m helping out ATC or I screwed up my descent planning. But then my previous ‘78 J which I flew for seven years, and the C I flew before that, didn’t have them. So, maybe I’m missing something. 

Skip

I find I use them most at night, when I have to come home and dive over mountains in the pitch black. I stay high until I know I’m past the mountains then pop the speed brakes to get down. 

[FloridaMan]

Was it cold enough for it to have frozen? I've had only one deploy once in flight. Recycling them got it up. I assumed it froze as the plane got rained on pretty hard for a couple days before. 

[N201MKTurbo]

15 hours ago, PT20J said:

I notice that Precise Flight says to remove them annually for inspection and lube. Does anybody actually do that?

I do mine every few years. Clean the mud and crud off them and put a drop of light oil on the bearings and lubriplate on the worm gear.

[R4dpilot]

6 hours ago, Antares said:

Was it cold enough for it to have frozen? I've had only one deploy once in flight. Recycling them got it up. I assumed it froze as the plane got rained on pretty hard for a couple days before. 

No it wasn't cold enough to freeze and had been in a heated hanger for the paint. Not sure what my paint guy did as they worked fine before the paint job