For those of us with Aspens and King A/P, the replacement A/P is...???

[gsxrpilot]

I actually prefer these. I've got two on my panel.

https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Pal-Holders-Adhesive-Removeable/dp/B01M046PID/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1543365467&sr=8-9&keywords=pen+clip

[amillet]

What do you use to fall under the seat or into the trim wheel well if your pens are secure?

[jonhop]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I actually prefer these. I've got two on my panel.

https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Pal-Holders-Adhesive-Removeable/dp/B01M046PID/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1543365467&sr=8-9&keywords=pen+clip

I've got two as well... I guess I should hand the other 8 out to my buddy airplane owners, as I had to buy the 10 pack to get black.

[Marauder]

5 for $11?

that can’t be aviation quality

 

They are not. I’m serious. They swivel and you will want something that is stationary. The group I bought from Amazon were glued to make them aviation quality.

 

 

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[aviatoreb]

Just now, Marauder said:

 

They are not. I’m serious. They swivel and you will want something that is stationary. The group I bought were glued to make them aviation quality.


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And besides why do I want 5?  I mean I don’t have 5 planes so why would I want 5 pens?  I guess I could put one on my bicycle.

[gsxrpilot]

18 minutes ago, jonhop said:

I've got two as well... I guess I should hand the other 8 out to my buddy airplane owners, as I had to buy the 10 pack to get black.

I started a "group buy" here on MooneySpace almost two years ago. I had to buy 25 of them to get all black. I think I've got three or four left. All the others were spoken for before I place the order.

[Marauder]

And besides why do I want 5?  I mean I don’t have 5 planes so why would I want 5 pens?  I guess I could put one on my bicycle.

So you can give them out to the rest of the Cheap Bast&$d members.

I did install a second one when the stupid pen you see in the picture ran out of ink.


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[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I started a "group buy" here on MooneySpace almost two years ago. I had to buy 25 of them to get all black. I think I've got three or four left. All the others were spoken for before I place the order.

Sign me up!

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Sign me up!

Send me an address and I'll send you one of them. 

[aviatoreb]

37 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Send me an address and I'll send you one of them. 

:-)

[Simpson Bennett]

On 11/27/2018 at 11:08 AM, Oldguy said:

This is along the line I am thinking as well. If I had gone G5's instead of Aspen, it would be a no-brainer, but oh well. Either way looks to be expensive, but less painful than a non-functional (or only partially functional) autopilot.

Hey, @Simpson Bennett, what is the likelihood of some incentive for those of us who will bite the bullet and go from Brand K autopilot to the STEC 3100? Inquiring wallets want to know.

It's tough doing a price promotion on a brand new product especially with it being a full system since we can't use the existing King servos. The current promotion, before the STC is issued, is an extra year of warranty. There are upgrade paths for those who do have an S-TEC system that brings the starting price down under $10k.

[Awful_Charlie]

Pen?? Pen holder??

How quaint I guess!

[LANCECASPER]

The King KFC230 Aerocruze received TSO approval on 12/14. (https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=159538&start=30)

[gsxrpilot]

By putting this online, I've probably jinxed it for all of us...  But I'm thinking I might get to upgrade my Aspen PFD to MAX, add an Aspen MFD MAX, and replace my KFC150 with the Aerocruze...  before OSH 2019?

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

By putting this online, I've probably jinxed it for all of us...  But I'm thinking I might get to upgrade my Aspen PFD to MAX, add an Aspen MFD MAX, and replace my KFC150 with the Aerocruze...  before OSH 2019?

 

Now we're all screwed .. lol. You should have said "Before Oshkosh" and not mentioned the year.

[PT20J]

I talked to Bendix-King today regarding the KFC 230. They are still working on the Bonanza certification and have no date for Mooney.

[vorlon1]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:14 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Send me an address and I'll send you one of them. 

Dang it! I'm always late to these parties!

[StevenL757]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:38 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I'd love for all of this to be cheaper. 

But the full retail new purchase price for the GFC600, AeroCruze, and STEC3100 are all $20K.  Of these three... only the STEC and the AeroCruze are scheduled to be available for the Mooneys. And of those two... I've got more confidence in Genesys than King, in delivering a full featured product on time.

The GFC500 is cheaper but is also more limited than any of the three above

@gsxrpilot Paul...so I gotta’ ask, and certainly not putting you on the spot.

IF Garmin wanted enough of a user base to commit to investing in the GFC600 STC for, say, the K, M, R, and S models, would this peak your interest enough to throw your hat into the ring?

Personally, and as I mentioned awhile back to @donkaye, I want the 600 in the worst way.  Although I could settle for the KFC230 if and when it gets released, I’d jump on the 600 if Garmin commits to putting the Ovation on the list.

Thoughts?

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, vorlon1 said:

Dang it! I'm always late to these parties!

I might still have one... I'll check when I get home.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

@gsxrpilot Paul...so I gotta’ ask, and certainly not putting you on the spot.

IF Garmin wanted enough of a user base to commit to investing in the GFC600 STC for, say, the K, M, R, and S models, would this peak your interest enough to throw your hat into the ring?

Personally, and as I mentioned awhile back to @donkaye, I want the 600 in the worst way.  Although I could settle for the KFC230 if and when it gets released, I’d jump on the 600 if Garmin commits to putting the Ovation on the list.

Thoughts?

No worries, I'm happy to answer.

It appears to me... that the best, most feature rich, autopilots are the GFC600, KFC230, and Stec3100. On paper, which is the only place to see them right now, they all look about the same and certainly top of the line. If they are all equivalent with regards to features, functions, etc. I would likely take the KFC230 as my first choice just because of the upgrade price and ease of upgrade from my KFC150. 

If BK is true to form, the KFC230 will be available in about 5 to 8 years and I'm not waiting. So then I would be interested in either the GFC600 or the Stec3100. 

I'm not a big fan of Garmin but it's political and I won't get into it publicly here. Secondly, Garmin probably wouldn't chose me as a customer either as I like my Aspen and my Avidyne and am unlikely to replace either.

I guess the bottom line is that if the GFC600 was STC'd and available for my Mooney, and would fully support my Aspen for such things as GPSS, Altitude pre-select, vertical speed, etc. and would also fully support my Avidyne IFD540... I'd buy one. 

[StevenL757]

Understood.  I'm pretty-much of the same opinions.

Putting politics aside (agree - I'm not going there either), I'd like to see how many other K, M, R, and S owners would raise their hands in a show of interest to see Garmin move forward with the GFC600 STC for any or all of those aircraft.

Am certainly not trying to pit vendors against one another here or cause a problem...I'd simply like to see if anyone would raise their hands to gauge interest for perhaps a future poll, and then based off those results, present findings to Garmin for comment and consideration of a suitable STC.  Haven't seen anything posted here where this question has been asked specifically, so wanted to put it out there.

Steve

[gsxrpilot]

I will agree with you 100% that the K, M, R, S Mooneys are serious cross country machines and those of us who fly them would likely be very interested (and willing to spend) in a serious, full featured autopilot such as the GFC600. 

[donkaye]

12 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

@gsxrpilot Paul...so I gotta’ ask, and certainly not putting you on the spot.

IF Garmin wanted enough of a user base to commit to investing in the GFC600 STC for, say, the K, M, R, and S models, would this peak your interest enough to throw your hat into the ring?

Personally, and as I mentioned awhile back to @donkaye, I want the 600 in the worst way.  Although I could settle for the KFC230 if and when it gets released, I’d jump on the 600 if Garmin commits to putting the Ovation on the list.

Thoughts?

Unless management has changed (or will change) at Garmin, I have asked multiple times and been rejected each time I asked to have the M model put on the list for GFC 600 approval.  They continually say it's not going to happen.

I just don't understand the philosophy.  While the GFC 500 is a good AP, what a pain to install all the extra parts that should not be needed for those of us who have the G500/G500TXi.  The cost of the GFC 500 will approach that of the GFC 600.

[StevenL757]

I agree.  My avionics shop is staunchly against (as am I) removing my L-3 ESI-500 (installed with every option) which backs up my G500, in lieu of a G5 simply to run an autopilot.  This is a major step backwards in technology in my cockpit and something that - as you indicate - makes no sense.

What also doesn't make sense is that some C182 variants made the GFC600 list where the GFC500 is probably a better choice for those aircraft, yet they won't include the long-body, higher-flying, faster, longer-range Mooneys?  The TBM models are also on the list; and although the 600 is a great AP for that aircraft, I can't imagine how that STC came about with how few TBMs exists to support the STC development cost for that model either.  Unless I'm missing something, the numbers just don't make sense to me.

[Marauder]

Unless management has changed (or will change) at Garmin, I have asked multiple times and been rejected each time I asked to have the M model put on the list for GFC 600 approval.  They continually say it's not going to happen.

I just don't understand the philosophy.  While the GFC 500 is a good AP, what a pain to install all the extra parts that should not be needed for those of us who have the G500/G500TXi.  The cost of the GFC 500 will approach that of the GFC 600.

 

Don/Steven - I work for a company that makes electronic products. It comes down to ROI on the addressable market. It’s more of a sales & marketing decision rather than a limitation of the technology. When I was a regional sales manager and a GM for a product line, I often was involved in product life cycle decisions which included whether to bring a product to market based on margins or providing sales forecasts based on the addressable market to justify the ROI.

 

Let’s say there are 1,000 M model Mooneys that could buy the GFC 600. Garmin is certainly looking at the addressable market and knowing the certification costs, will be making a determination if bringing the product to market will make economic sense. Factors like competition in the market place (STEC 3100) and the likelihood that people like Paul will be making his upgrade decision based on cost and timing, all come into play.

 

Garmin has a methodology to this. STEC approached this differently by asking for 15 PO commitments before proceeding with the STC 3100 certification for Mooneys. Maybe going back to Garmin and asking what level of commitment is needed to move this forward might get them to reconsider.

 

 

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