Panel upgrade, looking for opinions

[JimK]

Most owners in this thread are talking about the G5 as if it is the only option for a backup attitude indicator (AI).  My MSE has a RCA 2600-3 RC Allen electric backup AI with a 107-0001-01 Emergency Standby Power battery system.  Together these two make an outstanding backup AI and together they only cost about $3,800 plus installation labor. My system is 4 years old so I pulled the breaker in flight yesterday to check the backup battery.  After a 1.5 hr flight the battery was still registering more than 80% charge with the screen intensity set at 100%.  The fact that the instrument is electric allows me to reduce wear and tear on it by only powering it up when I fly IFR.  This also applies to the steam gage turn coordinator.  I have an ASPEN as primary AI and no vacuum system in the airplane.  See pic.

Also, I have heard owners talking about removing the steam gages when they install an Aspen.  I didn't because, if you're flying IFR, it is comforting to have a steam gage backup for every instrument in the Aspen (accept the VSI).  My panel plus an iPad/EFB with an external WAAS GPS sitting on the glareshield results in a pretty nice setup if I have a total and irrecoverable loss of electric power.

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, JimK said:

 The fact that the instrument is electric allows me to reduce wear and tear on it by only powering it up when I fly IFR.  This also applies to the steam gage turn coordinator.  I have an ASPEN as primary AI and no vacuum system in the airplane.  See pic.

 

Your turn coordinator provides rate information to your STEC autopilot, right?

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Jim.

Nice panel pic.

For others that may be interested in Jim’s back-up AI...  

https://www.kellymfg.com/images/RCA2600 operation manual rev D.pdf

I’m not sure what wear and tear you are referring to.  Any insight to go with that? Electronics or battery or anything in particular? 

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

I can't imagine a scenario where I have a total electrical failure and can't get on the ground before the backup batteries run dead. And if I had to shoot an approach in that same situation... I'd go buy a lottery ticket immediately.

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

I’m not sure what wear and tear you are referring to.  Any insight to go with that? Electronics or battery or anything in particular? 

Yeah, solid state electronics don't exactly "wear out"?

[MIm20c]

On 11/24/2018 at 6:55 PM, Marauder said:

 

It’s actually $1995 to upgrade a PFD and another $1995 to upgrade a MFD.




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It’s kind of misleading on the aspen site but I think the upgrade prices are 3k, 2k, 1k depending on the number of screens. To get the 2k single unit price you have to buy a new pfd before the max is certified. 

[larryb]

Yeah, solid state electronics don't exactly "wear out"?

Actually they do wear out. The mechanism is called electromigration. Strongly correlated to temperature.

[carusoam]

Way to go Larry!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

Momentum transfer and diffusion all in one place, on the scale of ions...

At MS you have to get smarter, just by being here...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sandman993]

Hi guys... after seeing some of these panel pix...turning a little green with envy. However, I'm doing pretty well with my GTN 750, Flight stream 510, Gtx 345 and a remote garmin audio panel along with a GPSS. Have been looking forward to updating to a new autopilot, so I too can fly around with my hands in my lap like those Cirrus squids on youtube. My major disappointment came with Garmin's "Affordable Autopilot" notion, which as it turns out, is hardly affordable. When they first brought up the possibility of an "Affordable Autopilot" it was supposed to be like 5k and change...then it went up to 7k, plus you have to add their G5 or better yet, 2 G5's if you want the autopilot to do everything it can do...oh, 2 G5's, add about $9800 installed to the 7k garmin autopilot head, in a box sitting on your wing...oh wait! Did I mention the servos you need have to be purchased separately along with misc hardware??? So, now we are in the mid to high 20's...Hardly "Affordable"!!! And I feel like Garmin peed on my leg, and told me it was raining. The FAA seems to have ruined the spirit of the recent part 23 rules too, when they got their booger hooks in it...sorta like what they did to basic med.

So, I reached out to Trio inquired about their offering...the Pro Pilot. They aren't moving as fast as Garmin, but say they will have the Mooney autopilot stc in 2019. That seems to be where I'm aiming going forward. Plus, it should work with the Aspen, which is much better than two G5's IMO. Might be wishful thinking, but me thinks you could have a stand alone working autopilot from Trio with altitude select/capture for around 11 to 14k all in. The pro pilot has a built in GPS, as I understand it. Thoughts?

[Sandman993]

If you guys keep posting those great panel pix...I'm gonna have to report y'all for posting avionics porn! Thought mine was pretty hot s**t, but this like bringing a knife to a gunfight!

[Marauder]

If you guys keep posting those great panel pix...I'm gonna have to report y'all for posting avionics porn! Thought mine was pretty hot s**t, but this like bringing a knife to a gunfight!

 

I like it. “Hon, you don’t mine that I look at some panel porn, do ya?”

 

 

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[Zulee]

On 11/24/2018 at 11:01 AM, MIm20c said:

This is a great deal. It’s almost as much work to install a mfd1000 with external battery as it is the pfd. Expect to pay 3-4k in labor alone if you add the screen at a later date. Make sure they make all the connections to your gps and audio panel so the max upgrade will just be a drop in. 

For the backup with dual screens I’d put in a used lifesaver gyro w/ battery backup or a G5 (1k or 2.5k installed). 

I decided to pull the trigger, the MFD is going in the panel...can you spare a couple bucks for lunch?

[Sandman993]

15 hours ago, Zulee said:

I decided to pull the trigger, the MFD is going in the panel...can you spare a couple bucks for lunch?

Lol... we’re having a 8 gun raffle at our little country airport for some improvements... auto opening gate etc. So I asked a good salesman I know to help me out... after a week I called him to see how he was doing with his ticket sales. He said these are very difficult to sell because usually, gun raffles are for for good causes... firemen, police, medical needs, but no one gives a s*** if you Poor pilots are having issues with your automatic gate!

[Zulee]

18 minutes ago, Sandman993 said:

Lol... we’re having a 8 gun raffle at our little country airport for some improvements... auto opening gate etc. So I asked a good salesman I know to help me out... after a week I called him to see how he was doing with his ticket sales. He said these are very difficult to sell because usually, gun raffles are for for good causes... firemen, police, medical needs, but no one gives a s*** if you Poor pilots are having issues with your automatic gate!

Again, can I borrow a couple bucks for lunch?

[David Lloyd]

Someone on another forum said, "Never feel sorry for a man with an airplane."

[NJMac]

Except when it's down for mx. Ask me how I know

Someone on another forum said, "Never feel sorry for a man with an airplane."

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Sandman993]

I’ll buy you lunch if you’ll buy some raffle tix! I’m tired of opening this gate!

[Zulee]

6 hours ago, Sandman993 said:

I’ll buy you lunch if you’ll buy some raffle tix! I’m tired of opening this gate!

Nope, a little manual effort is not going to hurt you

[Zulee]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:24 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I can't imagine a scenario where I have a total electrical failure and can't get on the ground before the backup batteries run dead. And if I had to shoot an approach in that same situation... I'd go buy a lottery ticket immediately.

You crack me up Mr. GSX, I respect a person that just tells it like it is.

[81X]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:24 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I can't imagine a scenario where I have a total electrical failure and can't get on the ground before the backup batteries run dead. And if I had to shoot an approach in that same situation... I'd go buy a lottery ticket immediately.

I’m not an aspen expert, but doesn’t a blocked pitot system cause AHRS issues/failures on those?  If you’re in the soup, running on the Aspen battery, it’s likely because the ships power is malfunctioning somehow. In that scenario, IFR, in cold weather, would pitot icing be the ticket for a mess since you arguably no longer have pitot heat?  

 

[Marauder]

I’m not an aspen expert, but doesn’t a blocked pitot system cause AHRS issues/failures on those?  If you’re in the soup, running on the Aspen battery, it’s likely because the ships power is malfunctioning somehow. In that scenario, IFR, in cold weather, would pitot icing be the ticket for a mess since you arguably no longer have pitot heat?  
 

Aspen’s new product called the Max addresses this. All of us who have the first generation Aspen also have a mechanical or electrical backups. The Aspen uses airspeed data (like all AHRS units) in part to determine the pitch representation. A backup unit like the ESI-500, are certified to operate in a degraded mode without the airspeed input.




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[gsxrpilot]

I’m not an aspen expert, but doesn’t a blocked pitot system cause AHRS issues/failures on those?  If you’re in the soup, running on the Aspen battery, it’s likely because the ships power is malfunctioning somehow. In that scenario, IFR, in cold weather, would pitot icing be the ticket for a mess since you arguably no longer have pitot heat?  
 

That’s what the G5 backup is for. So still no issue.

[ArtVandelay]

Hi guys... after seeing some of these panel pix...turning a little green with envy. However, I'm doing pretty well with my GTN 750, Flight stream 510, Gtx 345 and a remote garmin audio panel along with a GPSS. Have been looking forward to updating to a new autopilot, so I too can fly around with my hands in my lap like those Cirrus squids on youtube. My major disappointment came with Garmin's "Affordable Autopilot" notion, which as it turns out, is hardly affordable. When they first brought up the possibility of an "Affordable Autopilot" it was supposed to be like 5k and change...then it went up to 7k, plus you have to add their G5 or better yet, 2 G5's if you want the autopilot to do everything it can do...oh, 2 G5's, add about $9800 installed to the 7k garmin autopilot head, in a box sitting on your wing...oh wait! Did I mention the servos you need have to be purchased separately along with misc hardware??? So, now we are in the mid to high 20's...Hardly "Affordable"!!! And I feel like Garmin peed on my leg, and told me it was raining. The FAA seems to have ruined the spirit of the recent part 23 rules too, when they got their booger hooks in it...sorta like what they did to basic med.
So, I reached out to Trio inquired about their offering...the Pro Pilot. They aren't moving as fast as Garmin, but say they will have the Mooney autopilot stc in 2019. That seems to be where I'm aiming going forward. Plus, it should work with the Aspen, which is much better than two G5's IMO. Might be wishful thinking, but me thinks you could have a stand alone working autopilot from Trio with altitude select/capture for around 11 to 14k all in. The pro pilot has a built in GPS, as I understand it. Thoughts?

Aspen+EA100(req for AP) + Trio still adds up to low to mid 20s...not 11-14.

[Sandman993]

On 12/11/2018 at 3:43 AM, teejayevans said:

Aspen+EA100(req for AP) + Trio still adds up to low to mid 20s...not 11-14.

I’ve been told the autopilot is a stand alone... and if that’s not the case, how about the trutrak when they get it on the market. I received an email from trutrak that stated they are working on mooney ... shooting for late spring 19. Altitude select altitude hold and all I need is a gps for nav guidance.

to save almost 20k

anything but garmin at this point. 

 

[MIm20c]

On 12/11/2018 at 4:43 AM, teejayevans said:

Aspen+EA100(req for AP) + Trio still adds up to low to mid 20s...not 11-14.

The ea100 is an analog converter to emulate the ki256 et al. It is not needed for any of the new AP’s except for maybe the 230.