Stormscope

[jazztheglass]

I'm doing a panel upgrade (low budget) to my Cessna 340. The wx-500 stormscope is inop. I have analyzed the error messages and it points to the processor (box). I contacted L3 and it is $650 to bench test it and then $1800 to repair it regardless of the problem. That seems a little steep to me. I have seen complete systems for sale on ebay for $1000-$2500 and I was hoping to find a processor in that neighborhood price range. My hope is that now that the lightening strikes are available on foreflight and possibly xm in the future, the stormscope will be less necessary, and the demand will drive the price down. If I don't find one reasonably priced I will remove the bracket and antennae and wires, but it would be nice to have since it is set up to display it. Thanks for any leads or comments about stormscopes. I'm posting this on the POA and Twin Cessna sites as well.

[donkaye, MCFI]

10 minutes ago, jazztheglass said:

I'm doing a panel upgrade (low budget) to my Cessna 340. The wx-500 stormscope is inop. I have analyzed the error messages and it points to the processor (box). I contacted L3 and it is $650 to bench test it and then $1800 to repair it regardless of the problem. That seems a little steep to me. I have seen complete systems for sale on ebay for $1000-$2500 and I was hoping to find a processor in that neighborhood price range. My hope is that now that the lightening strikes are available on foreflight and possibly xm in the future, the stormscope will be less necessary, and the demand will drive the price down. If I don't find one reasonably priced I will remove the bracket and antennae and wires, but it would be nice to have since it is set up to display it. Thanks for any leads or comments about stormscopes. I'm posting this on the POA and Twin Cessna sites as well.

Stormscope is immediate, XM and FIS-B is delayed.  I wouldn't want to go cross country without one.  I'd recommend biting the bullet and either replacing it with a used one or getting it repaired.  I'd even considering buying a new one at $4,500, getting the warranty, and selling your broken one to someone else who would get it repaired.

[Mooneymite]

Short of having on board radar, I'm a big fan of "sferics".  When dealing with thunderstorms, there is no acceptable delay interval.  XM/ADS-B weather is great for planning, but in the heat of the battle you need to know what'sout there now.  Keep a stormscope, or get a radar.

L-3's repair pricing is pretty awful.  It is one of the factors steering me away from the L-3 Lynx ADS-B solution.

[ArtVandelay]

I would check Beechtalk as well, An MSer bought my WX10 just for this reason.

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

Stormscope is immediate, XM and FIS-B is delayed.  I wouldn't want to go cross country without one.  I'd recommend biting the bullet and either replacing it with a used one or getting it repaired.  I'd even considering buying a new one at $4,500, getting the warranty, and selling your broken one to someone else who would get it repaired.

+1

If you have panel space you might consider a stand alone unit. I am very satisfied with the wx 900 that was in my plane when I bought it. I spent $1200 to have it factory overhauled shortly after buying the plane in 2012. I consider it necessary for summertime cross country flying in my part of the country.  

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

Stormscope is immediate, XM and FIS-B is delayed.  I wouldn't want to go cross country without one.  I'd recommend biting the bullet and either replacing it with a used one or getting it repaired.  I'd even considering buying a new one at $4,500, getting the warranty, and selling your broken one to someone else who would get it repaired.

 

2 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Short of having on board radar, I'm a big fan of "spherics".  When dealing with thunderstorms, there is no acceptable delay interval.  XM/ADS-B weather is great for planning, but in the heat of the battle you need to know what'sout there now.  Keep a stormscope, or get a radar.

L-3's repair pricing is pretty awful.  It is one of the factors steering me away from the L-3 Lynx ADS-B solution.

Don't forget that ARTCC radar, while normally sucky at seeing precipitation, can detect lightning strikes, and usually areas of heavy precipitation.  If you only have XM/ADS-B, you can ask ATC to supplement your information, and that should get you a similar margin of safety to having a stormscope.  I think the correct terminology when talking to ATC is to ask if he "can tell me about any H's or plus's along my route".  That way there's no worry that they are interpreting weather information for you (which is technically not one of their duties)

Still, having a working stormscope is pretty cool.  I finally got to see it in action yesterday with some isolated thunderstorms. We rarely get them in the Pacific NW

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, jazztheglass said:

I'm doing a panel upgrade (low budget) to my Cessna 340. The wx-500 stormscope is inop. I have analyzed the error messages and it points to the processor (box). I contacted L3 and it is $650 to bench test it and then $1800 to repair it regardless of the problem. That seems a little steep to me. I have seen complete systems for sale on ebay for $1000-$2500 and I was hoping to find a processor in that neighborhood price range. My hope is that now that the lightening strikes are available on foreflight and possibly xm in the future, the stormscope will be less necessary, and the demand will drive the price down. If I don't find one reasonably priced I will remove the bracket and antennae and wires, but it would be nice to have since it is set up to display it. Thanks for any leads or comments about stormscopes. I'm posting this on the POA and Twin Cessna sites as well.

I would definitely get it repaired. Valentine Aviation could probably save you some money. https://www.stormscopes.com/

[gsxrpilot]

I took an old WX10 out of my panel. I've never missed it. I wouldn't fly in an area with thunderstorms at night. But during the day, I find that my delayed ADSB weather along with ATC is sufficient to keep me clear of dangerous convective activity.

[KSMooniac]

I've got XM and have been casually shopping for a used WX-500 myself. I think it would be a safety enhancer, at least in the storm-prone plains where most of my flying is.

Definitely check with Valentine.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Bob_Belville]

23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I took an old WX10 out of my panel. I've never missed it. I wouldn't fly in an area with thunderstorms at night. But during the day, I find that my delayed ADSB weather along with ATC is sufficient to keep me clear of dangerous convective activity.

Paul, I suppose it depends upon where you fly.

As I have recounted before, I used to do a NC to So. FL round trip every few weeks for several years. Often there was a line of convective running E/W across the route from Savannah to Jacksonville. Even while trying to stay clear of clouds it is necessary to know which buildups have to be avoided. And since there is another line of clouds behind the one you're looking at it is necessary to know what's behind what you can see in order to pick the best path. Been there, done that, for me a stormscope is like my 50 year old AX card... I don't leave home w/o it. Usually there would be a 50 mile stretch where I was zooming the SS range from 100 miles to 50 or 25 and hitting the clear button about every 60 seconds - old info is worthless, NEXRAD is just about useless for picking a path through weather. OTOH, I've flown through "red" ADS-B weather on the 750 with confidence if the stormscope was quiet. When ATC asks about your ride you know he's seeing the same heavy rain that's painted on the 750. I'm smiling and reporting: "smooth ride in heavy precip".) 

[toto]

+1 on having a SS in your toolkit. 

I don't ever fly through red nexrad myself, but a moderate radar return with a clear SS path is far better than a light return with the SS lit up. 

In my ADM calculus, it's the difference between an airmet and a convective sigmet

[rbridges]

50 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Paul, I suppose it depends upon where you fly.

As I have recounted before, I used to do a NC to So. FL round trip every few weeks for several years. Often there was a line of convective running E/W across the route from Savannah to Jacksonville. Even while trying to stay clear of clouds it is necessary to know which buildups have to be avoided. And since there is another line of clouds behind the one you're looking at it is necessary to know what's behind what you can see in order to pick the best path. Been there, done that, for me a stormscope is like my 50 year old AX card... I don't leave home w/o it. Usually there would be a 50 mile stretch where I was zooming the SS range from 100 miles to 50 or 25 and hitting the clear button about every 60 seconds - old info is worthless, NEXRAD is just about useless for picking a path through weather. OTOH, I've flown through "red" ADS-B weather on the 750 with confidence if the stormscope was quiet. When ATC asks about your ride you know he's seeing the same heavy rain that's painted on the 750. I'm smiling and reporting: "smooth ride in heavy precip".) 

I often fly to Orlando, so I'm talking with Jax approach.  Florida in the summer is one big afternoon storm, but it always seems like Savannah and Jacksonville has it the worst.  

[ArtVandelay]

Paul, I suppose it depends upon where you fly.
As I have recounted before, I used to do a NC to So. FL round trip every few weeks for several years. Often there was a line of convective running E/W across the route from Savannah to Jacksonville. Even while trying to stay clear of clouds it is necessary to know which buildups have to be avoided.

I avoid them all and trust only my eyes.

BTW, why is the gear unsafe light (red) on?

[Piloto]

A low cost option for lightning depiction is the Garmin Pilot. I have it on my Samsung S7 cell phone and it works pretty well anywhere in the world.

José

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Piloto

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I avoid them all and trust only my eyes.

BTW, why is the gear unsafe light (red) on?

The airplane was doing about 150 kts at 9000'. I'm gonna guess that the gear was up. Down and locked is green, otherwise...

TJ, I guess we fly in different skies. About 10% of my PIC hours are IMC. The Stormscope is far better than my eyes.  

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, Piloto said:

A low cost option for lightning depiction is the Garmin Pilot. I have it on my Samsung S7 cell phone and it works pretty well anywhere in the world.

José

José, I have Garmin Pilot on an IPAD as well but that won't get it done compared to a Stormscope. 

[toto]

2 hours ago, Piloto said:

A low cost option for lightning depiction is the Garmin Pilot. I have it on my Samsung S7 cell phone and it works pretty well anywhere in the world.

José

 

Interesting. Is the GP lightning data coming from XM, ADS-B, or cellular? Is the delay comparable to the 5m+ nexrad delay, or is it closer to real-time?

On a stormy day I'd stress about interference using any wireless source. I like having the airborne SS data even when the ground-based or satellite stuff is being flakey. 

That said, I've always had good luck with XM around storms, and I've always had good luck with ADS-B. Cellular data is very hit-or-miss ime, and I don't use it for anything but the occasional email. 

If reception is reliable, my biggest concern would be data delay. I always expect the SS to agree with what I see out the window, and if it doesn't, I believe the SS

[Piloto]

The weather data is coming thru the cell phone network. Lately I noticed the data refresh has improved to no more than 5 minutes delay. I can easily crosscheck the lightning on the ground by listening to the thunder nearby and found to be pretty accurate. Unlike Stormscope range is pretty accurate, so you know if lightning beyond or before your destination. To improve on cell phone reception I Velcro the cell phone to the visor.

José 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Piloto

[JKeeth]

10 hours ago, jazztheglass said:

I'm doing a panel upgrade (low budget) to my Cessna 340. The wx-500 stormscope is inop. I have analyzed the error messages and it points to the processor (box). I contacted L3 and it is $650 to bench test it and then $1800 to repair it regardless of the problem. That seems a little steep to me. I have seen complete systems for sale on ebay for $1000-$2500 and I was hoping to find a processor in that neighborhood price range. My hope is that now that the lightening strikes are available on foreflight and possibly xm in the future, the stormscope will be less necessary, and the demand will drive the price down. If I don't find one reasonably priced I will remove the bracket and antennae and wires, but it would be nice to have since it is set up to display it. Thanks for any leads or comments about stormscopes. I'm posting this on the POA and Twin Cessna sites as well.

What fault codes are being recorded in the fault log, and is the WX-500 in a failed condition at all times, or only temporarily? Was the WX-500 failing before the panel rework?

Also, it’s not a bench fee AND repair. It’s a bench fee OR repair fee  

Jim

[Mooneymite]

At work I can get both (the equivalent of) XM WX and airborne radar on my displays.  Believe me, there can be a significant difference between what the ground based XM radar shows and what airborne radar displays.   That difference could be deadly.  A stormscope is a cheap imitation of radar, but at least it is real time and it is airborne.

[jazztheglass]

3 hours ago, JKeeth said:

What fault codes are being recorded in the fault log, and is the WX-500 in a failed condition at all times, or only temporarily? Was the WX-500 failing before the panel rework?

Also, it’s not a bench fee AND repair. It’s a bench fee OR repair fee  

Jim

Hi Jim-  it never worked-  I have a picture of the error codes somewhere- my avionics shop reviewed them and it and said it was the processor.  I called L3 myself on Friday afternoon.  They quoted me a bench test and a repair price.  I specifically asked the lady if both charges would be added and she said "yes."  If you have other information please let me know and thanks for replying.  I am looking for that error code photo- stand by

[jazztheglass]

13 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Short of having on board radar, I'm a big fan of "spherics".  When dealing with thunderstorms, there is no acceptable delay interval.  XM/ADS-B weather is great for planning, but in the heat of the battle you need to know what'sout there now.  Keep a stormscope, or get a radar.

L-3's repair pricing is pretty awful.  It is one of the factors steering me away from the L-3 Lynx ADS-B solution.

I have on board radar as well.  It only tells you how heavy the precip is.  Nothing about lightening or turbulence.  I also would like more information on weather in the Bahamas that I frequent as much as I can afford.  XM and ADS-B seem to stop at the northern tip of Andros

[jazztheglass]

[jazztheglass]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would definitely get it repaired. Valentine Aviation could probably save you some money. https://www.stormscopes.com/

I have contacted them- thanks  I will post their pricing.  

[Lance Link]

Valentine did a great job for me, tested bad wx 1000 components both processor and display and sold me replacements for about $1,900.