Any tricks to pulling oil screen on IO-360?

[hammdo]

34 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I struggle with if this is the real reason for using 'food grade'.

First, how much metal can possibly be in the tiny amount put on the threads? Second, how much of that small amount is actually going to get into the engine. oil? Finally, what damage is that tiny amount going to do considering the particle size?

Granted, I don't have a better explanation

This may help:

’Lycoming Service Instructions 554. 1458C, 1059D, and others, call for the use of Loctite Food Grade Anti-seize, part number 51168. This is very important to ensure that proper torque values are met when installing engine connecting rod stretch bolts. This product is also commonly known as Fel-Pro or Felpro anti-seize. 

LOCTITE Food Grade Anti-Seize prevents seizing, galling, friction, and wear on threaded joints and other metal-to-metal surfaces. It is a combination of white lubricating solids and extreme pressure lubricating agents in an aluminum gelled white oil. Typical applications include pipe joints, nuts, bolts and studs, flange gaskets, slip-fit, press-fit and keyed shafts, and metal-to-metal contact involving stainless steel and other stainless alloys. It is used in industrial food industries such as meat and poultry packing plants, dairy products processing plants, canning plants, grain processing plants, sugar processing plants, bakeries, beverage plants, breweries, hospitals, and other general plant maintenance. This product is typically used in applications with an operating range of -29°C to +400°C.’

[MikeOH]

11 hours ago, hammdo said:

This may help:

’Lycoming Service Instructions 554. 1458C, 1059D, and others, call for the use of Loctite Food Grade Anti-seize, part number 51168. This is very important to ensure that proper torque values are met when installing engine connecting rod stretch bolts. This product is also commonly known as Fel-Pro or Felpro anti-seize. 

Thanks.  Ensuring precise anti-friction properties to assure proper torque values are met on critical fasteners, e.g. connecting rod stretch bolts, makes perfect sense.

My comment was limited to installing the plug on the oil screen.  

[hammdo]

Maybe an AP/IA can chime in.  Outside of what I found, lycoming has not given why.

-Don

[MisfitSELF]

The best tip I have when safety wiring that bolt is to make a hook out of the wire and some long needle nose pliers to get it hooked into the hole in the bolt.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, hammdo said:

Maybe an AP/IA can chime in.  Outside of what I found, lycoming has not given why.

-Don

Confessional time;  for my entire career of 38 years I’ve never used anything on the oil screen cap.  Never had one seize or fall out.  Guess I got lucky.

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, hammdo said:

Maybe an AP/IA can chime in.  Outside of what I found, lycoming has not given why.

-Don

I think the best product just happens to be food grade, being food grade is inconsequential.

[47U]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:35 PM, PT20J said:

Anyone know why Lycoming specifies food grade anti-sieze for the suction screen plug?

Idle minds... I can’t get through all the technical talk of the Preignition thread (you all are WAY smart!), and I can’t stomach the Sunday shows, so I’m reading Lyc SBs.

Is SB 480 saying to use the Loctite 564 on the suction screen plug?  Or, is it only calling for Loctite on the sump drain plug(s)?  The SB states that when draining the oil, one or both sump drain plugs can be removed.

The SB is specific to list individually the sump drain plug(s), suction screen plug, and the oil filter when safety wiring.  The suction screen plug isn’t listed along with the sump drain plug(s) in the Loctite reference (para 5). 

Thoughts?   

[A64Pilot]

I think you maybe right on the sump drains, I’ve never put anything on the screen cap either, never knew to.

‘But maybe just as important, I’ve never seen anything on the threads when I removed one either and you would expect some loctite to be visable

[PT20J]

47 minutes ago, 47U said:

Idle minds... I can’t get through all the technical talk of the Preignition thread (you all are WAY smart!), and I can’t stomach the Sunday shows, so I’m reading Lyc SBs.

Is SB 480 saying to use the Loctite 564 on the suction screen plug?  Or, is it only calling for Loctite on the sump drain plug(s)?  The SB states that when draining the oil, one or both sump drain plugs can be removed.

The SB is specific to list individually the sump drain plug(s), suction screen plug, and the oil filter when safety wiring.  The suction screen plug isn’t listed along with the sump drain plug(s) in the Loctite reference (para 5). 

Thoughts?   

The Loctite is for the drain plug (most of us probably have quick drains instead of the plug)

You just didn't read far enough. The suction screen plug is covered on page 8 

Pretty silly how the procedure, if the steps are taken in sequence, instructs you to refill the sump before removing the suction screen.

FWIW, we didn't lube the plug either. We didn't have any food grade anti-seize and my IA said he's never lubricated one and has never seen one stuck. It can't affect the torque since the plug is tightened to a rotation spec, not a torque.

Skip

 

 

[47U]

29 minutes ago, PT20J said:

You just didn't read far enough. The suction screen plug is covered on page 8 

Sure enough, Skip... I didn’t read far enough.  Thanks for the correction. 

So, the mystery of the reasoning behind food grade anti-seize continues (at least for me).  Why don’t they specify a brand, like the Loctite 564?

The reference for tightening the plug an additional 135 degrees past initial contact is also there, and then a CAUTION to make sure the plug is “installed tightly” (?). A new crush gasket has a lot of give, and 135 degrees doesn’t make the plug very tight (in my opinion).  I do make sure the safety wire is tight, though.

 

[carusoam]

The manual writers have a real job to get done...

Including seeing into the future...

When too specific...

The user is unable to find that exact lubricant, and is left with an un-airworthy plane...

 

When not specific enough... only mechanics in the industry that are up to date on their lube charts will know the current answer...

 

Fortunately for MSers... we get to discuss the latest lubes that are not available...   

 

Some lubes are really good, but can be poisonous if ingested...

Food grade lubes may not be the best... but when ingested, they won’t kill you...

 

What is in some lubricants that would cause a hassle for an engine?

Some thread lubricants use a metal powder like aluminum or copper...

any excess may end up in the oil stream...

Any oil analysis will start showing high levels of aluminum or copper... kind of misleading the owner to something bad going on inside the engine...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[saabnut]

here you will find interesting reading regarding food grade anti seize vs other types.

Why You Should Change to Non-Metallic-Based Thread Lubricants, Pastes, and Sealants - Reliability Matters (chesterton.com)

[David Lloyd]

Lynn Mace was doing my annual a couple weeks ago and sent me a picture of a piece of safety wire, paired, twisted about 5/8" long from the screen. Wasn't broken, it was cut with dykes each end.  He also said the screen had not been removed in years, despite the recent entry in my engine logbook from the previous oil change. My airplane has the oil cooler relocated to the footwell/firewall, it must be moved to reach one 201 style cowl flap bracket which in turn must be removed to get at the throttle cable bracket that is in the way.  I can understand the not doing this at every oil change, but to say you did, in writing and not do it is inexcusable.  

[RLCarter]

1 minute ago, David Lloyd said:

 but to say you did, in writing and not do it is inexcusable.  

Agreed.... I wonder how long that safety wire tail has been floating around?

[David Lloyd]

20 Years?  20 Minutes?  Somewhere between.  Clean cuts each end, not dents or gouges.  Four cylinders off for rework 400 hours ago, mags off about the same time.  Prop and gov about 900 hours ago.  When it happened is a mystery.  Last years annual, mechanic was asked, he looked me in they eye and said yes, screen was clean.  He is unlikely to get my money in the future.  Oil change in October, that was written in the logbook.  I'm gonna get my spare keys from that guy.  If he asks why, he will find out.

[redbaron1982]

Hey, sorry to bring back to life an all thread, but I don´t want to start a new one for something trivial...

So today I pulled my oil suction screen out and reinstall it and want to get feedback on how the safety wire looks. I'm still learning how to do safety wires and this one is in a terrible position. I cursed in all possible languages!

I used food grade antisize and a new crush gasket.

PS: Yes, yes... it seems that the plug used to be a heated plug that some ...... cut the wires out of it instead of removing the heated one and install a regular one.

 

[PT20J]

Looks pretty good to me. It's hard to get in there. With experience, safety wiring gets easier. I'm better than I used to be, but not nearly as good as the mechanic at the museum that's been doing it for 40 years. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hey, sorry to bring back to life an all thread, but I don´t want to start a new one for something trivial...

So today I pulled my oil suction screen out and reinstall it and want to get feedback on how the safety wire looks. I'm still learning how to do safety wires and this one is in a terrible position. I cursed in all possible languages!

I used food grade antisize and a new crush gasket.

PS: Yes, yes... it seems that the plug used to be a heated plug that some ...... cut the wires out of it instead of removing the heated one and install a regular one.

 

Well within the acceptable range, the only thing is where you have it attached to the case you kind of reversed the direction. The wire should coming off the left side of the boss instead of the right side. Don’t even think about fixing it. Just try to do it better next time.

 

[redbaron1982]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Well within the acceptable range, the only thing is where you have it attached to the case you kind of reversed the direction. The wire should coming off the left side of the boss instead of the right side. Don’t even think about fixing it. Just try to do it better next time.

 

Yes, I noticed that. It should go in the same direction from where the wire is pulling. I tried to make it that way but didn't succeed...

Edited June 21, 2023 by redbaron1982

[47U]

2 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

and want to get feedback on how the safety wire looks.

What Rich (N201MKTurbo) said, and I would add that when removing safety wire from the engine case, use a side cutter pliers to snip it first.  If you grab the safety wire with your pliers and twist it to break it free, eventually you will tear boss out and then you’ll be looking for another anchor to safety the plug to.  If you can’t get in there with a pliers to snip it, break it free from the plug and untwist it to get it free.

[N201MKTurbo]

It is a gawdawful place to work. Not sure how you got your camera in there.