Southwest Uncontained Engine Failure

[Oscar Avalle]

13 hours ago, David Herman said:

Oscar, 

While it took amazing airmanship to land a gliding 737 on a grass levee, it also took lack of judgement or mis-interpretation of RADAR to get into such a strong thunderstorm cell. I try not to be too critical, because we are all human and make mistakes. I had not heard the story of the Captain ... that’s quite interesting. I’ve heard El-Salvador can be pretty “rough!”

If you read the article above ... towards the end - you’ll note that my employer purchased that airplane and it remained in service until late 2016 before being retired. I flew it several times. Knowing the airplane’s history, I even snapped a few pictures of it one day in 2014 before we took it out. 

Yeah, the same thought crossed my mind... but then I never flew a plane with Radar... NEXTRAD is the closest I got to it and I have to admit I am still learning. Mistakes are human... but still his story is impressive. Thanks for the pictures. 

[Mooneymite]

11 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Excellent. I had 11:1 in my head for some reason. I’ll be very happy to update my Garmin Pilot glide ring accordingly!

Should I have a sudden engine failure, I would probably not have the time to refer to charts, so I would just take my altitude (AGL) in thousands X2 and it would give me a "fairly close" number of air miles I could glide regardless of the prop windmilling, or not.

Anyone have something better without depending on electronics?

[bradp]

@David Herman you missed the “make Austin weird again” hats 

[SantosDumont]

Someone should look up all the airframes at Mojave and start up a boneyard tour and tell the stories.  I had no idea the glider was over there.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Should I have a sudden engine failure, I would probably not have the time to refer to charts, so I would just take my altitude (AGL) in thousands X2 and it would give me a "fairly close" number of air miles I could glide regardless of the prop windmilling, or not.

Anyone have something better without depending on electronics?

Nope, that's what I do. Except when trying this on my recent Flight Review, I forgot to pull the prop back. We were already low, though, so I was only running 2300, not sure how much of a difference it would have made there. We then turned it into an "hey, the engine is running again but your flaps are dead" landing, which went well. Fast, but well, and little braking needed on my 3150' home field.

[thinwing]

Another South West flight report from today

[bradp]

Something hit that window...?

[mike_elliott]

23 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Should I have a sudden engine failure, I would probably not have the time to refer to charts, so I would just take my altitude (AGL) in thousands X2 and it would give me a "fairly close" number of air miles I could glide regardless of the prop windmilling, or not.

Anyone have something better without depending on electronics?

Visually swing an arc from the left wingtip, to the front, to the right wingtip. You can make anything inside this "arc" power off.

[Mooneymite]

50 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Visually swing an arc from the left wingtip, to the front, to the right wingtip. You can make anything inside this "arc" power off.

Hmmm.  That's sounds like a very practical "app".  Next time I fly, I'll see how it compares to the charts.

I guess it helps if you sit really low in the cockpit.  The arc will be much bigger!  

Thanks for the tribal knowledge, Mike.

[thinwing]

4 hours ago, bradp said:

Something hit that window...?

No idea but looks ripe for an explosive decompression

[Hank]

5 hours ago, bradp said:

Something hit that window...?

That's been reported, but if it broke due to scratches on the outside, the sound of the fast-moving break can sound like an impact. Score a piece of glass and bend across it with your hands, it can be quite loud. [former stained glass hobbiest . . . . . lots of scoring and breaking experience]

[Hank]

39 minutes ago, thinwing said:

No idea but looks ripe for an explosive decompression

Nah, only the outer layer broke. Should be two or three layer construction in that window.

Despite the hype on the news about "emergency landing":

• the plane maintained pressurization
• oxygen masks did not deploy
• the pilot did not declare an emergency
• there was no emergency descent
• the plane diverted somewhere conveniently-sized and nearby
• the pilot made a normal descent
• the pilot made a normal approach and landing
• no equipment was prepped for their arrival

And before someone asks, No, I do not fly on SouthWest. But I am a Delta Frequent Flyer . . . . 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Hank

[ShuRugal]

On 4/19/2018 at 6:47 AM, Chris from PA said:

Both pilots worked together and did a fantastic job in bringing this emergency to a successful conclusion. But don't think that they are the exception. Every time you get on an N registered carrier, certainly a major, you've got seasoned experts up front. They practice engine failures and depressurization scenarios routinely in the simulator. Many have a military background. While these two pilots should be commended for their professionalism I would submit that almost 100 percent of the crews out there would also perform at this level. You're in good hands

 

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the handful who are not up to this level of professionalism and teamwork give the whole industry a bad name:  See the KLM pilot at Tenerife.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Nah, only the outer layer broke. Should be two or three layer construction in that window.

Despite the hype on the news about "emergency landing":

• the plane maintained pressurization
• oxygen masks did not deploy
• the pilot did not declare an emergency
• there was no emergency descent
• the plane diverted somewhere conveniently-sized and nearby
• the pilot made a normal descent
• the pilot made a normal approach and landing
• no equipment was prepped for their arrival

And before someone asks, No, I do not fly on SouthWest. But I am a Delta Frequent Flyer . . . . 

Typical media hype...trying to make news where there isn't any to sell ads.

"Stay tuned for details of the Southwest near tragedy....and be sure to listen to all the ads between now and then if you want to hear a media hyped-up non-event."

Turn it off, for Pete's sake!

[EricJ]

21 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

Unfortunately, the handful who are not up to this level of professionalism and teamwork give the whole industry a bad name:  See the KLM pilot at Tenerife.

I always thought the most ironic part of that was that he was their chief instructor/safety pilot.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, ShuRugal said:

Unfortunately, the handful who are not up to this level of professionalism and teamwork give the whole industry a bad name:  See the KLM pilot at Tenerife.

Um....  I'm not sure I would characterize Van Zanten as unprofessional.  He made a terrible error, but there, but for the grace of God go I.....

From Wikipedia:

Jan Bartelski, a KLM captain until 1978 and later president of the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations, was a contemporary of Van Zanten and knew him personally. In his book Disasters In The Air, he describes Van Zanten as:

a serious and introverted individual but with an open-hearted and friendly disposition. He was a studious type and regarded as the company’s pilot expert on the Boeing 747 systems.

And adds that:

He believed in partnership, to the extent that he insisted on his first officers addressing him during flight as «Jaap» and not «Captain van Zanten».^[3]

[kris_adams]

On 5/1/2018 at 7:01 PM, gsxrpilot said:

The one thing to remember is that if you're paying for something, you're a customer. But if you're getting something for free, you're the product.

Yes yes yes!!!  I'd pay for a service...how much is the question. 

[kris_adams]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

And before someone asks, No, I do not fly on SouthWest. But I am a Delta Frequent Flyer . . . . 

Count me as a SouthWester or whatever they are called...and I live in Atlanta and was Platinum on Delta for 15 years.  I think SWA is wonderful and none of these situations bother me when I get on board SWA (ATL-Boston and home yesterday).  Of course I sit in front of the wing on pretty much all flights.  And yes I still fly Delta for the few flights that it is still inconvenient to fly SWA.  (no offense intended for any Delta pilots or employees)

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Um....  I'm not sure I would characterize Van Zanten as unprofessional.  He made a terrible error, but there, but for the grace of God go I.....

The other side of that was that the recordings showed that he basically got impatient with control and the FO after lengthy delays and took off without clearance while another aircraft was on the runway.   "Unprofessional" may be one of the kinder adjectives that people have given him.

[jaylw314]

36 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The other side of that was that the recordings showed that he basically got impatient with control and the FO after lengthy delays and took off without clearance while another aircraft was on the runway.   "Unprofessional" may be one of the kinder adjectives that people have given him.

True, but consider that there _were_ things making him impatient, and this was still in the days before CRM and discussions of human factors became commonplace and standard.  It's not an excuse, but that context makes it more understandable how a pilot could make such an error in that environment.  I'd like to think that would be much less likely in today's environment.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

True, but consider that there _were_ things making him impatient, and this was still in the days before CRM and discussions of human factors became commonplace and standard.  It's not an excuse, but that context makes it more understandable how a pilot could make such an error in that environment.  I'd like to think that would be much less likely in today's environment.

I think virtually all the crews were pushing limits of their duty time.  I suspect fatigue was making everyone a bit grumpy....and get-there-itis was setting in.