newbie with questions... of course

[kerry]

I have a friend that purchased a commanche 250.  He did all his flight time and check ride in it.  I did my training in a cessna 150/150.  Once I got my ticket I purchased a mooney.  From the start I found the mooney much easier to fly than a 150.  I think it is possible to start your training in a mooney.  I think it's better to train in a c150 or c172 or better yet a conventional gear plane.  I think from the start it will make you a better pilot.  Your check ride will consist of several differn't manuvers ( S turns, turns around a point, slow flight, stalls and differn't kinds of landings).  In my  opinion these manuvers are easier to do in a high wing aircraft.  If you buy a mooney and something goes wrong and needs to be fixed e.g. propeller overhaul.  This could be as expensive as renting or even buying a c150.  This could delay your training and make it not as fun. The beginning of flight training needs to be fun and not a headache and plus you have a chance to try out differn't aircraft.

[carusoam]

ZeroTach,

What car did you use for training to get your driver's license? 

If you say Corvette with a six-speed...  Start shopping for your Mooney right now.  The economics for purchase are spectacular.

On the other hand, if you say mom's chrysler Reliant K with automatic transmission......   Start looking for your Mooney, and buy the one you want when you are ready.  It may take a year or longer to study and find the ONE.....  in the meantime consider working on getting your training in economically sensible trainers.

(For me: around 100 hours in C152s/C172s (PPL+IR) and 500 hrs + in M20C/M20R)

Dream big..... follow your dreams...

Best regards,

-a-

[jetmech1972]

I would suggest you start your training in brand P archer or warrior or brand C 150, 172.  A 172 would not be a good candidate to cross the sierra through I-80. the handling gets sloppy about 9000ft and is pushing 100-200ft in climb, a 182 on the other hand does have better performance and payload than a 172. While flying in hawaii I prefered an arrow, a low wing, to cross inter-island. Since you live in solano county you might check out the travis aero club in rio vista. They have a new fleet of brand P and I believe their rates are cheaper than napa and vacaville.  If memory serves me right the do take civilian into the club.  Nut tree airport has a great bunch of pilots that love to talk aviation.  The gate code is 125.

I plan to return to flying this summer after finishing nursing school in may. I have no experience flying moonies but have been a life long follower of them. In all the reading out there you will find that moonies are the safest, most fuel effiencent, and has one die hard fan base as you will experience on this site.  I do plan to purchase a mooney in the next year. I too have not decided which route to take normaly aspirated vs turbo living in NORCAL.

PM me and I will be glad to help with any questions.

[kerry]

I just pulled out my sectional.  I've never taken a route between the bay area and fallon.  I have gone to the bay area from las vegas via trona pass.  Looking at the sectional if you stay 30 miles south of lake tahoe at 10-12k msl doesn't seem much differn't than trona pass.  This route takes you by 2 airports(bear valley and alpine co).  This seems almost close to a straight shot.  No problem for a non turbo mooney.  I think a c172 would be fine.  The mooney would save you some time.

[N33GG]

I would recommend not using your Mooney to learn in.  As stated before, training will be hard due to mistakes made during the process.  But, even if you are a perfect student, and never make a mistake (good luck with that one), private pilot training requires certain procedures that would be hard on your engine and aircraft.  For example, sudden power out to learn and practice emergency procedures is not something I would want to do to my engine on a regular basis.  And double that comment if you get anything with a turbo.  And there are other things too...

There are good reasons they are called trainers, and there is no shame in using a trainer.  And you won't lose that much time getting to flying your Mooney either.  Go get a trainer, get your license, and then get checked out in a Mooney. 

Sincere advice from someone that has done more than a little instructing over many years.

[Amelia]

I learned in a vintage C-150- under a demanding CFI who made sure we wrung that thing out, spins and all. Bought half of a C-172, got 700 hours, much of that seriously cross-country, and yes, across the Rockies, over the Sierras, and into Tahoe maybe a half-dozen times,  and earned an instrument rating in that. THEN I bought 1/4 of a Mooney 231, and learned a whole bunch more. The experts are right about Mooneys loving to fly-- and float, if the approach speed isn't exactly right. They're also slippery, less forgiving of unusual attitudes. Furthermore, Mooneys are fast- and can get you in weather trouble in a bigger hurry than, say, a Cherokee 180 or a Cessna 172. And they're more expensive, per hour, to operate, insure, and maintain. I wouldn't have wanted to start ab initio in it.  That said, I can't imagine a more perfect airplane for my current needs/wants, than the Mooney. It's fast, capable, comfortable, responsive, and a real pleasure to fly, especially when the trips are long and the terrain beneath me high. The potential tailwinds at 18K are the icing on the cross-country cake.

 

Delay the Mooney purchase and rent- it's a good excuse to try out different configurations, brands, and so forth, too. You and your wallet won't be sorry.

[N33GG]

Quote: Amelia

I learned in a vintage C-150- under a demanding CFI who made sure we wrung that thing out, spins and all. Bought half of a C-172, got 700 hours, much of that seriously cross-country, and yes, across the Rockies, over the Sierras, and into Tahoe maybe a half-dozen times,  and earned an instrument rating in that. THEN I bought 1/4 of a Mooney 231, and learned a whole bunch more.

[jbreda]

I am going to relate my experience for what it is worth.  I got my PPL in the usual array of Cessnas at about 40 hrs.  I then met a man who owned a Grumman Tiger and started on my IFR training at about 50 hrs.  Most of my time from 50 to about 130 hrs were done as dual time with CFII in actual conditions.  I mention this for 2 reasons 1) the Grumman is a floater like the Mooney but is not complex, so you will learn speed control and learn how to bleed speed off with landing in an airplane that does not sink like a rock, without being a complex aircraft  2) you are on the west coast and perhaps have opportunities for actual IFR training.  I like the idea of starting off on training for your IFR license soon after obtaining PPL.

John Breda

[rbridges]

Here's my 2 cents.  I recommend renting the aircraft you're going to use for training.  At least for a little while.  You may realize that it's not your cup of tea.  Worse yet, you may realize you hate flying or that it doesn't meet your expectations.  Also, you may find out that you don't fly enough to justify outright ownership of the plane.  I thought I'd fly more than I do, but I believe I only flew ~30 hours last year.  I would come out cheaper renting, but I like the idea of being the only one using the plane and knowing how it's being treated.

I flew in a cherokee for the first 100 hours.  When I transitioned to my '65 C model, my insurance agent had a somewhat difficult time finding someone to insure me.  At this point, I love it.  It's one of the fastest fuel efficient planes you'll find for the money. 

[Lood]

I would also recommend starting out in a "lesser" airplane. Mooney's are lovely airplanes and a pleasure to fly. Although substancially quicker and a more complex than a C172 or Cherokee, you will also adapt to that rather quickly.

The problem for a low time pilot with little experience, however, is when things differ to the normal day to day routine. You fly into an busy, unknown airport for the first time, the weather might be catching up to you, there's a lot of traffic all over the place and continious transmissoins on the radio, etc, etc. Now, everything speeds up - a lot - including inside the cockpit and things tend to run away. This is where thorough training will kick in and determine the outcome. If you do opt to train in a Mooney, by all means, but get an instructor that knows Mooney's and don't rush it. Good luck!

[Ron McBride]

My flight experience is different than most. My Dad was a pilot also. He had a Comanche 250 when I was 16. I was flying this with him at 16.   I took my formal training in a C150. Loved it. 

When I had about 500 hours in the Comanche, Cherokee's and C 150's Dad purchased a 310.  I have over 250 hrs in the log book for the 310 and maybe another 250 that I never logged. I stopped flying for 10 years. I did a BFR in a Warrior, the instructor asked me if I was sure that I was out of currency 10 years plus.

Then I bought my 69F.  This plane humbled me many times. I consider a Mooney harder to fly the the 310. I would not learn to fly in a Mooney, I would learn in a C150 or Cherokee. After you are licensed then learn and fly the Mooney. Do not learn to fly in the Mooney.  And Yes, My Mooney is perfect for me.   Fast 140 Knots plus on 9 to 10 gallons of fuel and a useful load of 1040 #'s.

I live near Yosemite and fly out of Mariposa. Takeoff a depart over the Sierra's when needed.  Beware of heat.

Ron

 

 

[jelswick]

I had 12 hrs in a C152 before buying my Mooney and would offer that it does take longer to learn in a Mooney and the insurance was prohibitive, but not impossible.  I think they were trying to tell me it's not the best training aircraft and just a little over 10 yrs ago, that was close to $4K in my '63C model.  That cut in 1/2 the next yr and again substantiallly in yr 3 with the instrument rating.  Great aircraft, but it can get frustrating/discouraging when it's taking longer wondering if that was the right call (my instructor would joke that if I didn't learn to land that day because it was taking so long that he was going to put a for sale sign in it's window), but looking back at it, I wouldn't have done it any differently.  It was the aircraft I knew I wanted and would want to fly longer term, so it worked for me.   

[5854Q]

Just to reiterate what has been said; there are a lot of smart and experienced people here. Flying is much more than take-off, landing and flying around the patch. Not only is there all the "book learning" but all the experiences you should handle first in a lesser complex aircraft. Noticed you have children. You wouldn't have them learn a two wheel bicycle without training wheels before riding anything, would you? Give yourself the same opportunities to learn in spite of the emotional desires. By the time you earn your PPL and Instrument Rating, hopefully you will have survived a sufficent number of in-flight emergencies due to weather, mechanical and personal factors. Once you have those experiences behind you, step up to a complex aircraft and go through those experiences again. They will still be a handful the second time around, but you have a better chance of survivng them.

As far as flying across the Sierras; I don't not know specifically. I have flown (both ways) across the lower Rockies in New Mexico & Arizona. There I saw vertical speeds in excess of 2000 fpm (3000 ft above the ridges). Also experienced winds so strong I could not climb above the ridge on departure from Calsbad, NM. Waited for  a day and half under clear blue skies for the winds to calm. Found out later that a 727 at 28000 experienced severe turbulence that day and made an emergency landing. A flight attendant was severly injured.

I bought my first plane, 1958 C-172 in 1975.

[jrwilson]

Quote: serottak

sorry for my ignorance but i have a question regarding flying around vs over. does that mean flying into tahoe is out also? living in the bay area the mountains and ocean seem to be very limiting in where i could fly.

i'm not trying to be argumentitive but i just want to be find out if flying is right for my family. As for the weather and such ending a weekend trip that is something i am prepared for and fully expect. one of the reasons im interested in private flying is that when the weather says dont go there, we might be able to go somewhere else instead.

[Larrynoel]

 

I trained in an 150 then went to a Mooney M20c.   I fly from Billings MT to the Bay Area with it with no trouble at all.  I trust my airplane and fly it a pretty direct route.  As far as crossing the Sierras I do a pretty straight line from Concord (CCR) to Reno.  I make a small jog to the south around Sacramento airport and a straight line from there over Lake Tahoe.  That puts me just outside of Reno Class C airspace as I pass by and continue on.  I have not had any trouble crossing over going this route and you can make it easy at 11,500' .  This may not be the route to take if you do not trust or know your airplane.   I must also say watch the weather. It can change quick. Always know where you are and have a way out!

[SteveSmithSEO]

 

I learned in a 152 also and recommend it. You WILL slam the thing into the runway at some point and check to see if you set off the elt, you will; A. Be Glad it's a rental. and B. Be Glad it's a 152 (bullitproof) super strong landing gear and the tail tiedown ring makes a great bumper when it hits the runway.

FYI what caused that hard landing was me not guarding the throttle on take off and my inst. closing it for me and not allowing me to re-open it so I used the yoke for airspeed (violent slam into the panel) and landed as quick as possible on the remaining runway. This was from maybe 150' up. That lesson I'll never forget. they want to see how quick you think, real simple here get airspeed and get to that runway now before its not an option I feel like I went straight down and flared at the runway. My inst. was a bit surprised at the violence of that execution to say the least.

Simulated surprise engine out procedures at 150Kts with an engine you own? why? do you have an extra $20,000 burning a hole in your pocket? A good inst will do all this stuff to you. My inst. during straight and level flight to a practice area turned off the fuel and the did an OH Sh** and watched me go through the procedure, lots of fun with a trainer.

Also a 152 has windows that open and doors that open in flight for steering lol and If you slide your seat back you get to use it as an elevator plus its nice and quiet and fun to slip there are a million reasons to do your first 30-50 hours in a little trainer. Oh and try and find a thin instructor they kinda narrow inside.

 

[Barry]

An instructor who pulls your power on takeoff, 150 feet above the ground, should lose his certificate ...

[flight2000]

Quote: Barry

An instructor who pulls your power on takeoff, 150 feet above the ground, should lose his certificate ...

[jetdriven]

Quote: Barry

An instructor who pulls your power on takeoff, 150 feet above the ground, should lose his certificate ...