Fuel cost going up?

[Piloto]

The only practical solution for GA pistons is MOGAS. It is cheaper than diesel and widely available, more than any of the other fuels. For less than $10K a GA piston engine could be modified to run on it. After all before there was AVGAS (WWII) all the DC-3s, Amelia's Electra, Lindberg Spirit of St. Louis and others were running on MOGAS without any problems.

José

 

[jetdriven]

a 7.8:1 compression IO-360 can run on MOGAS all day long, and so can most low compression small engines.  I have done it myself. All the STC's usualy are is a change of non-fuel resistant O-rings and sometimes a timing change.   Those days are over now, due to ethanol poisoning our auto fuel. 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Piloto

The only practical solution for GA pistons is MOGAS. It is cheaper than diesel and widely available, more than any of the other fuels. For less than $10K a GA piston engine could be modified to run on it. After all before there was AVGAS (WWII) all the DC-3s, Amelia's Electra, Lindberg Spirit of St. Louis and others were running on MOGAS without any problems.

José

Hi Jose,

What is it that they would propose to do when converting a higher compression GA engine to run on Mogas for a 10k conversion?  What are they making for the conversion - is it electronics?  Is this some kind of electronic timing system like in cars?  I presume there are none yet available but if the need came, the know how is there?

Erik

[Skybrd]

I fly my Mooney out of Bakersfield, Ca (BFL) and recently asked what the fuel price is. I was told it is over 6.00 per gallon. BFL airport locked up and disabled the self service pumps. This morning I flew the plane to Porterville (about 40 miles away) and gassed up at the self service pumps. The price per gallon was $5.70 per gallon. About two weeks ago I refueled at nearby Delano from self serve pumps and it was 4.85 per gallon. -- When I bought my first airplane (Piper Tripacer) in 1972 the fuel price was .48 per gallon for 80 octane and tie downs on the ramp was free (at Great Falls, Montana). 

[Barry]

Taxes and inflated money have changed the landscape.

[flyboy0681]

I found eldeano's response very interesting. IMO he speaks the truth on the greater issue, which is that the current run up on prices is due to speculators. This has historically been the case of the past decade and a half, so we are in full agreement on that.

 

I do take exception to his quote "Also the general consensus is that in the next 15 years we will solve our energy storage issues(batteries), and petroleum will start to take a significant hit, as electric energy can be produced locally in any number of ways"

In 1974 president Nixon spoke of the nation being energy independent by the end of the decade. As we all know, this was a pipe dream (no pun intended) and every candidate and president to hold office ever since has declared war on buying oil from "people that don't like us very much". My point here is that even when this country had the means to become less reliant on foreign crude, not only didn't we move forward to realize that dream, we actually became more dependent on it. What can possibly make anyone believe that in a period as short as 15 years we will solve the problem?

As I enter my 50's, I hold out little to no hope that in my lifetime we will ever overcome our dependence on foreign oil. I do, however, believe that Canada's extensive oil sands reserve (said to be as large as Saudi Arabia's) will relieve the pressure somewhat.

Last word on the subject. I was listening to a radio program a couple of weeks ago and the host had on 3 oil industry experts. A caller into the show asked why the price at the pumps rise daily when the gas that's already in the tanks had been delivered and paid for a week prior. Two of the guests wouldn't touch the question and the third answered. He said that over the past 15 years, the gasoline distributors have found a way to manipulate the price on a daily basis based solely on what the spot market was doing that day. For those of you who grew up in the 40's - 60's, the price at the pump rarely moved for years at a time (most out there can probably recall "Ethyl" at about 22 cents), even though demand was constantly increasing as the great boom of the post WWII expansion period marched on.

 

[Piloto]

Quote: aviatoreb

To convert an engine to run on MOGAS there would be no need to pull the engine out. The most it would be required is to change the cylinders and maybe the connecting rods. Some minor changes to the fuel servo or carburator would be required too. No need to change magnetos or crankshaft. Not all the engines would require all  of the above. The modification would be much cheaper than a new diesel engine. The cost returns due to cheaper MOGAS could be recovered in less time than with a diesel mod. And BTW MOGAS is cheaper than diesel.

José

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: eldeano

I am not an oil expert, but I am an investor, and the only reason the oil prices are going up is due to speculative buying, pure and simple. Investors are are speculating that the turmoil in the middle east will cut supplies.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: flyboy0681

I found eldeano's response very interesting. IMO he speaks the truth on the greater issue, which is that the current run up on prices is due to speculators.

 

[flyboy0681]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

  Bring on the stagflation, Bernanke.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: flyboy0681

I, for one,  wouldn't mind getting 10% on a 5 year CD!

It's the other misery that comes along with it.

[scottfromiowa]

I just bought 30 gallons of one hundred low lead in northern Arkansas (CVT) for 4.23 a gallon...

[Skybrd]

Today we refueled at PTV Porterville, Ca at the self service pump and was happy to pay less than recent flights. It was $5.05 per gallon. Other airports (including BFL Bakersfiel, Ca) have been charging over 6.00/gallon. Porterville has a restaurant on the field and has good food. They have lots of pictures of planes on the wall and some of the local pilots hang around it creating a hanger flying atmosphere. Places like this sure encourage general aviation. I think someone needs to make restaurants like the one in the Disney movie Rocketeer that was called "The Bulldog" .

[fantom]

Airglades, in Clewiston FL, $4.54/gal last evening.

[aerobat95]

Enid, OK is 5.09/gal

[garytex]

If the unleaded avgas of the future fails to materialize, or costs $10. or $15. a gallon, the reasonable alternative is Mogas.  Jetdriven is right about ethanol being poison.  It can be convincingly argued (and I think in the final analysis it is true) that it saves no imported oil, drives up food costs, lowers fuel economy and is certainly bad for the environment (lots of nitrogen fertilizer).  It also sucks in boats, lawn mowers etc.  I for one intend to do my little bit whenever I chat with politicians to try to make it go away.  The old no alcohol mogas was great stuff, with the exception of a shorter tank life.  8.5 compression engines can run on 91 octane, I suspect that the IO-360 A1A could do so also with shorter pistons (easy change)  or 20 Deg BTDC (easier change) timing, or Tat-ta-ta-Dah nothing more than electronic ignition with variable timing and knock sensors.

But the alcohol has got to go. 

[RJBrown]

APA $4.29 self serve $5.29 Full serve.

Alcohol is killing your car, your lawnmower, your environment and your food bill. The only benefit for it is the politicians can pay off their buyers with our money.