DaV8or Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 I went to Oshkosh this year and was impressed with the Garmin G5 units, specifically the price. Both my vacuum powered AI and HI are are pretty much crap. The first because it has been terrible from day one since I installed it "new" with my panel rebuild and the later just because it's old and precesses like a marching band around a city square. Anybody here install them yet? Good, bad, ugly? Quote
KSMooniac Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Very tempting. They provide nice redundancy (with 2 units) and a great upgrade path to the GFC 500. I don't see anything not to like, except for possibly more functionality with the Dynon kit or perhaps the G3X which can't be far behind the Dynon package. (At greater cost of course)Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 They are not available yet, I've asked for an estimate and told they don't have installation doc yet. The key is the installation costs. Quote
Bravoman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Having one installed now in our Saratoga. Took 4 or 5 weeks for Garmin to get it to the shop. About $3 AMU installed. Quote
PTK Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Unfortunately the G5 AI will not provide attitude reference for attitude based autopilots such as the KFC150 for example. That's a show stopper for many because it does not address the vacuum dependency. It doesn't enable one to remove the vacuum system without losing the autopilot. Thankfully this does... http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 Quote
BDPetersen Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Had high hopes of finding a G5 deal at OSH. No luck. Anyone else? Quote
bradp Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 What PTK said: it's only useful as a backup for attitude based autopilots with flight directors. I went with a G5 for the 4hr backup battery and for IFR redundancy. I have a non-flight director based attitude autopilot (century iib), so I was able to put the G5 in the AI position and move my Vacuum AI to the TC. The G5 is STCd for TC and turn rate indicator so I didn't lose anything and gained a lot. The other thing that I liked was that it's modular; the use of LRUs from the G3x system seemed like it would have functional upgradability; and with the HSI, autopilot GPSS interface and new G500 autopilots, this is panning out as anticipated. I did the install myself and was supervised by my IA. It's pretty straightforward. It took me about 10 hrs to do, plus the 30 min it took to do the pitot/static leak down test. It should take less than that for a professional shop to do. About that many hours for a shop if you have to install a new antenna. I did for redundancy and to do a WAAS antenna install at the same time. The plane needs to be leveled for calibration. You can either deflate the nose tire (risk pinching the tube), or jacking the plane. Since then it has been rock solid in IFR. I note 2-5% discrepancy between the ASI and the speed tape on the G5. But it passed. It may be that my ASI is in need of overhaul. The screen is bright and high contrast- just pretty to look at. The screen dims nicely for night flight. I kept the GPS source for the G5 separate from the GPS navigator for redundancy. The altitude and heading/track bugs are useful features. Some people have complained that theres no audio call out- but the fact that the connector is 9 pins - 3 power/ground and 2 canbus - that's 4 pins for interface- he G5 doesn't interface with much but that's the beauty of it - installation is simple. I plan to do the HSI/GPSS next- the magnetometer install seems to be the most challenging part. I'm thinking rear empennage will be the most practical location, but I'm a little bit concerned about interference. Then I'll have dual redundant AIs, glass autoslewing, HSI and a path to the G500 autopilot (FD and annunciation on the AI), and perhaps a path to the G3x. Given the use of the canbus architecture, I can do each of these installs piecemeal without major panel surgery. I can do them myself with my AI (which I genuinely enjoy), and I don't have to sink a year tuition into a major panel upgrade that might result in me getting strangled by my lovely partner / swmbo. Now what I don't quite like is 1) no attitude source for attitude based APs. My vacuum can't be removed until the GFC500 comes out, 2) the marriage of he G5 to Garmin products in general. There may be legal ways to get around this without violating the STC. If you want something that functions for what it is at comparatively low cost - go for dual G5s. If you want lots of information overlays, and synthetic vision, full legacy autopilot interface- then go with an aspen or G500. But I'll hopefully have 80% of the functionality of the Aspen with a 4-6x battery with dual independent ahars, without need for odd backup configurations, and autopilot interface for about half the cost of an Aspen unit. That's pretty attractive for a CB. 1 Quote
Browncbr1 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 I'm about to pull the trigger on dual g5s with a gtn650. Generally, shops are quoting all over the place. What is a little unexpected is that some shops are claiming that the HSI install will take more time than the Gtn, while others are saying the opposite. One shop says $2800 installed for the AI and $4800 installed for the HSI/gad29b/gmu11. Another shop wants $2975 for the HSI/gad29b/gmu11 and $2195 for the AI and $4000 to install both at the same time as installing the gtn for $3700. Still waiting on another couple of shops to come in with quotes before I decide. Quote
Browncbr1 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 FYI, garmin also announced they will amend the STCs for optional flush mount. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 12:50 PM, Browncbr1 said: FYI, garmin also announced they will amend the STCs for optional flush mount. Expand Hmmmm... I flush mounted mine when we installed it back in June. It just so happens that an EDM-900 flush mount kit from JPI, fits the G5 perfectly. 6 Quote
rbridges Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 1:01 PM, bluehighwayflyer said: I really like your panel, Paul. Not too much. Not too little. Just right. Jim Expand the flush mount with the white aluminum looks very clean. Almost factory looking. 1 1 Quote
Bravoman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 11:34 AM, PTK said: Unfortunately the G5 AI will not provide attitude reference for attitude based autopilots such as the KFC150 for example. That's a show stopper for many because it does not address the vacuum dependency. It doesn't enable one to remove the vacuum system without losing the autopilot. Thankfully this does... http://www.bendixking.com/V4/KI-300 Expand How much is that King unit? That looks like it would probably be the way I'd go if I bit the bullet for the Mooney since it has the KFC-150. The Saratoga has an S tec (which is rate based) and I am putting in the G5 for what I see as some relatively inexpensive attitude backup because although I have a standby vacuum system I only have the one AI in the panel. Quote
PTK Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 2:02 PM, Bravoman said: How much is that King unit? That looks like it would probably be the way I'd go if I bit the bullet for the Mooney since it has the KFC-150. The Saratoga has an S tec (which is rate based) and I am putting in the G5 for what I see as some relatively inexpensive attitude backup because although I have a standby vacuum system I only have the one AI in the panel. Expand According to their presentation at Airventure it's supposed to start shipping next month. Quote
Bravoman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 2:12 PM, PTK said: Accoding to their presentation at Airventure it's supposed to start shipping next month. Expand Significantly more than the G5 but worth it when you factor in the ability to drive the King autopilots. Quote
PTK Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 2:27 PM, Bravoman said: Significantly more than the G5 but worth it when you factor in the ability to drive the King autopilots. Expand It accomplishes several key things: • enables removal of vacuum system • all inclusive with no need for extra boxes • keep your existing autopilot. Doesn't force you to remove a perfectly capable autopilot only to turn around and sell you another one! • does not lock you down in the Garmin ecosystem 1 Quote
Mark89114 Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Will believe the KI300 When someone actually has one installed. 2 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 I'd like to do it at annual, I figure it's got save me money having the plane apart and jacked up. I'll start calling around next week. For HSI installation, I thought you needed an avionics tech to do that? I have an STEC so I can drop the vacuum. Quote
Bravoman Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 And the King autopilot retrofit is pretty cool too! 1 Quote
Bryan Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 I have the KFC 200 with Flight Director. Would the G5 drive that and allow me to remove my vacuum system? Quote
PTK Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 3:29 PM, Bryan said: I have the KFC 200 with Flight Director. Would the G5 drive that and allow me to remove my vacuum system? Expand No. 1 Quote
Godfather Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 3:29 PM, Bryan said: I have the KFC 200 with Flight Director. Would the G5 drive that and allow me to remove my vacuum system? Expand No, in fact legally you can't install it in place of your current AI because you have a flight director. I've had one new in box for a few months trying to decide what to do with it. With my plane being FIKI, flight director based AI, and my BK AP needing the attitude output I'll probably just sell it. I'd buy the ki300 but I don't trust BK any more. The Garmin g3x will probably be stc'd next year but the company will probably stipulate no FIKI... Quote
gsengle Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 4:08 PM, Godfather said: No, in fact legally you can't install it in place of your current AI because you have a flight director. I've had one new in box for a few months trying to decide what to do with it. With my plane being FIKI, flight director based AI, and my BK AP needing the attitude output I'll probably just sell it. I'd buy the ki300 but I don't trust BK any more. The Garmin g3x will probably be stc'd next year but the company will probably stipulate no FIKI... The only reason to buy it is it is actually a sandia unit... but I'm afraid if I go that path eventually I'll be sucked into a king autopilot retrofitSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 12:53 PM, gsxrpilot said: Hmmmm... I flush mounted mine when we installed it back in June. It just so happens that an EDM-900 flush mount kit from JPI, fits the G5 perfectly. Expand Paul, How did you get the G5 installed as a back up to the Aspen? By STC or by field sign off? My undstanding from Garmin is that the G5 is not certified as a back up to any glass panel, other than another G5. Clarence Quote
RobertGary1 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 On 8/12/2017 at 4:57 PM, M20Doc said: Paul, How did you get the G5 installed as a back up to the Aspen? By STC or by field sign off? My undstanding from Garmin is that the G5 is not certified as a back up to any glass panel, other than another G5. Clarence Expand Same here. It's certified as a primary but not a secondary with the same power source is how i remember reading it -River Quote
gsxrpilot Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 On 8/14/2017 at 2:31 AM, RobertGary1 said: Same here. It's certified as a primary but not a secondary with the same power source is how i remember reading it -River Expand PM sent. The problem is not power, but rather the reliance on the pitot/airspeed for attitude. Quote
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