1987 205 SE / M20J For Sale - NY KPOU

[gsengle]

I'm starting to see that, in a big way.  There might be a diamond in the rough here or there but it's starting to seem like "buy once cry once" really does apply here.
 

Personally I believe the well loved machines are the bargains, because those airplanes aren't going for as much as they deserve above bluebook!


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[Firebird2xc]

1 hour ago, gsengle said:

 

Personally I believe the well loved machines are the bargains, because those airplanes aren't going for as much as they deserve above bluebook!


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Define 'deserve'.  Sentiment doesn't mean much to me when somebody's trying to use it to steal my AMUs.  There's a lot of people out there trying to get all of the money they spent on upgrades to an airplane back when they sell it.  Meanwhile, their expensive gizmo isn't shiny or even relevant anymore- or at the very least depreciated.

I see airplanes with an ancient stack and a shiny new cheap coat of paint being marketed at well over Vref and think they'll just find a sucker.

I see planes where the owner obviously hasn't kept up maintenance, is probably upside down on the loan, and thinks he can find a sucker to bail him out, etc.

As for 'well loved', an expensive panel upgrade means spit to me when I open the tail access panel and see control rods crawling with corrosion.

Airplane shopping is worse than house hunting.

[gsxrpilot]

Mooneys naturally fall in to three categories, short, mid, long. And they are also three different categories of cost as well. The short bodies are the ultimate certificated, traveling airplane in the $40K to $60K range. The mid bodies are the best traveling machines in the $100K to $200K range. And the long bodies for the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" crowd.

The mid-bodies are also the sweet spot for speed  and efficiency. And the pinnacle of that pursuit is the normally aspirated M20J 205 and in the turbo category, the M20K Encore. Both of these models are rare and so this, very well cared for M20J 205 should be top of the list for anyone in the market for a mid-body normally aspirated Mooney.

If you're gonna put money into an airplane post purchase... and don't lie, we all do... you can't start with a better platform than the M20J 205, or the M20K 252.

I'm about to talk myself into buying it just to have the matched set ;-)

[Lowbid]

My only concern is the make-up oil consumption.  I believe one of the Blackstone analysis' showed 8 quarts of make-up oil?

My C uses 1 quart between changes.  8 seems very high, but maybe I'm spoiled.

[gsengle]

Define 'deserve'.  Sentiment doesn't mean much to me when somebody's trying to use it to steal my AMUs.  There's a lot of people out there trying to get all of the money they spent on upgrades to an airplane back when they sell it.  Meanwhile, their expensive gizmo isn't shiny or even relevant anymore- or at the very least depreciated.
I see airplanes with an ancient stack and a shiny new cheap coat of paint being marketed at well over Vref and think they'll just find a sucker.
I see planes where the owner obviously hasn't kept up maintenance, is probably upside down on the loan, and thinks he can find a sucker to bail him out, etc.
As for 'well loved', an expensive panel upgrade means spit to me when I open the tail access panel and see control rods crawling with corrosion.
Airplane shopping is worse than house hunting.

Well loved means well maintained, not lipstick on a pig. Well loved planes don't command as much money as they should imho. So you're better off buying one for a little more than buying a "bargain" bird where you'll give back your "savings" in maintenance pretty darn quick.


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[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Well loved means well maintained, not lipstick on a pig. Well loved planes don't command as much money as they should imho. So you're better off buying one for a little more than buying a "bargain" bird where you'll give back your "savings" in maintenance pretty darn quick.

 

Yep, I've got a list of members who thought they had found a bargain. 

[Firebird2xc]

4 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Well loved means well maintained, not lipstick on a pig. Well loved planes don't command as much money as they should imho. So you're better off buying one for a little more than buying a "bargain" bird where you'll give back your "savings" in maintenance pretty darn quick.


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Fair enough.  Any key points to look for that really show this?

Being a forensic detective to figure out if an airplane has been cared for or not is getting old.

[gsengle]

Fair enough.  Any key points to look for that really show this?
Being a forensic detective to figure out if an airplane has been cared for or not is getting old.

It's hard - best bet is to know the owner and their reputation as well as the shop that did the maintenance. Sometimes just how clean the engine is can be a tell tale indication (not on my bird)... meticulous records are a good sign too.

When I bought my two planes I flew with the owners to gauge their personalities too and how they flew the aircraft. I've had good luck.


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[gsxrpilot]

I look for a bird that gets a lot of use.  Heavy usage will result in little things breaking, which is normal. I then look to see how those little things have been repaired. Is there a lot of duct tape, zip ties, and HomeDepot hardware? Or are things fixed right, with correct parts, and log entries.

You can often see this from a quick look around the plane, sitting in the cockpit, and a quick scan of the logs.

[Firebird2xc]

10 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

It's hard - best bet is to know the owner and their reputation as well as the shop that did the maintenance. Sometimes just how clean the engine is can be a tell tale indication (not on my bird)... meticulous records are a good sign too.

When I bought my two planes I flew with the owners to gauge their personalities too and how they flew the aircraft. I've had good luck.


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10 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I look for a bird that gets a lot of use.  Heavy usage will result in little things breaking, which is normal. I then look to see how those little things have been repaired. Is there a lot of duct tape, zip ties, and HomeDepot hardware? Or are things fixed right, with correct parts, and log entries.

You can often see this from a quick look around the plane, sitting in the cockpit, and a quick scan of the logs.

I appreciate the insight here, guys. You actually just vindicated a few points where I was feeling a little over-suspicious.

 

[LuvFlying]

53 minutes ago, Lowbid said:

My only concern is the make-up oil consumption.  I believe one of the Blackstone analysis' showed 8 quarts of make-up oil?

My C uses 1 quart between changes.  8 seems very high, but maybe I'm spoiled.

It had a leak from a hose (or something, IIRC right now) that was fixed during annual.  It was an obvious leak (oily belly) that I was aware of and was on the squawk list for annual.  Since then, it returned back to normal. 

[Firebird2xc]

16 minutes ago, LuvFlying said:

It had a leak from a hose (or something, IIRC right now) that was fixed during annual.  It was an obvious leak (oily belly) that I was aware of and was on the squawk list for annual.  Since then, it returned back to normal. 

Can you approximate what your normal oil consumption rate is?

[Godfather]

52 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Well loved means well maintained, not lipstick on a pig. Well loved planes don't command as much money as they should imho. So you're better off buying one for a little more than buying a "bargain" bird where you'll give back your "savings" in maintenance pretty darn quick.


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People give the same value on engine times if the overhaul is 30 years old and the bird is flying 30 hrs a year vs one that is recent, flying 150 hrs a year. I'd much rather buy a plane that has been in the air a lot over the past decade and has good maintenance to back that up. 

[gsxrpilot]

6 minutes ago, Godfather said:

People give the same value on engine times if the overhaul is 30 years old and the bird is flying 30 hrs a year vs one that is recent, flying 150 hrs a year. I'd much rather buy a plane that has been in the air a lot over the past decade and has good maintenance to back that up. 

Yes, and to add to that, I'd give more value to an engine in an airplane with an engine monitor. And while I'm evaluating the owner, I'd be checking to see if he/she knows how to read/use the engine monitor. 

[Firebird2xc]

23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yes, and to add to that, I'd give more value to an engine in an airplane with an engine monitor. And while I'm evaluating the owner, I'd be checking to see if he/she knows how to read/use the engine monitor. 

Well said, sir.  Once I realized data trend tracking was available with the new JPI monitors, for example, I decided I won't own a plane without one.  

[rbridges]

2 hours ago, gsengle said:

 

It's hard - best bet is to know the owner and their reputation as well as the shop that did the maintenance. Sometimes just how clean the engine is can be a tell tale indication (not on my bird)... meticulous records are a good sign too.

When I bought my two planes I flew with the owners to gauge their personalities too and how they flew the aircraft. I've had good luck.


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In my one and only plane purchase, I dealt with a guy that really appeared genuine.  Took time to explain things, and he made several comments that made me realize he looked over the plane carefully.  He also had his logs and manuals organized extremely well.  Out of ignorance, I didn't get a thorough pre-purchase, but everything went well.  

[GaryP1007]

wow....what a beauty.  Gives me a good sense of what I can get for the $$ when I shop next spring.

[LuvFlying]

SOLD

 

Oh... and as such... I say goodby to this wonderful community.  You folks are awesome! 

[gsxrpilot]

A lot of folks on this board missed out on a great bird.

[Firebird2xc]

46 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

A lot of folks on this board missed out on a great bird.

So long as somebody gives the airplane a good new home, eh?  I scraped up the extra cash to make a possible offer but was out of the country then locked down under Irma.  C'est la vie- sometimes the timing just isn't there.

[dooleypster]

Is this plane still available?

[carusoam]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:01 PM, LuvFlying said:

SOLD

 

Oh... and as such... I say goodby to this wonderful community.  You folks are awesome! 

Dooley,

Unfortunately, They didn’t make two of this one.... (this is a few posts up from here)

Best regards,

-a-

[dooleypster]

It shows this post as 15 hrs old.  Is this bird still for sale?

[steingar]

Congrats to the OP, that looked like a very well maintained plane.  The highest priority item on my list is always did the owner take good car of the airplane?  Is it clean?  Where did it live?  Was it hangared?  What got done to it? 

A well cared for aircraft will give you fewer problems than one that was just flown and ignored.

I still don't get this whole engine monitor thing.  My aircraft has a plain-jane 0360 Lycosaurous.  There's been one under its hood since 1962, for well over 4000 flight hours.  What's an engine monitor going to do for me again?

[PeterB]

Is this aircraft still available?