Chief Differences Between C & D Models and E & F Models

[andymccann]

The title may say it all... still educating myself on the breed.  I still think I'm looking for an E, but I'd like to learn as much as I can on the unique traits of each model.  For example, they built a lot of C's, but ended production of D's after a fairly brief run.  I kind of wish Gordon Baxter was still around, I remember he was a real champion of Mooney and he'd probably have a lot to say (still).

Thanks.

[gsxrpilot]

C's - carbureted, 180hp, short body.
D's - carbureted, 180hp, short body, fixed gear. (Most have been converted to retractable gear, which makes them identical to the C's.)

E's - fuel injected, 200hp, short body.
F's - fuel injected, 200hp, mid-body. (fuselage stretched by 10 inches. 5" in the rear seat and 5" in the baggage area.)

Front seat room is exactly the same in all. The E's will be the fastest and the D's will be the slowest. 

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

C's - carbureted, 180hp, short body.
D's - carbureted, 180hp, short body, fixed gear. (Most have been converted to retractable gear, which makes them identical to the C's.)

E's - fuel injected, 200hp, short body.
F's - fuel injected, 200hp, mid-body. (fuselage stretched by 10 inches. 5" in the rear seat and 5" in the baggage area.)

Front seat room is exactly the same in all. The E's will be the fastest and the D's will be the slowest. 

Fs got a MGW bump to 2740# (from 2575# for the short bodies, which more than offsets the added weight of the longer plane, and larger fuel capacity. The F has about the best UL in the fleet.

[flyer7324]

Sounds just about right Bill


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[flyer7324]

Uh Bob!


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[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Front seat room is exactly the same in all.

I keep seeing people on MS saying that but I definitely have more room in my J than I had in my D. In my D I didn't have even an inch to spare between my knees and the panel with the seat all the way back. I can fly my J with the seat one notch up from the back. 

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

I keep seeing people on MS saying that but I definitely have more room in my J than I had in my D. In my D I didn't have even an inch to spare between my knees and the panel with the seat all the way back. I can fly my J with the seat one notch up from the back. 

Interesting.  In looking at the rear most seating position in my F it's about 6" off the rear seat (front of the spar) when full aft.  In looking at the short bodies I've been in, the front seat rests against the rear seat when aft against the stop.

[MooneyMitch]

It's my understanding, the D was fixed pitched propeller.

Disclaimer......I may be wrong on the fixed pitch issue.  I've been wrong once in my life, I think..... but I'm not quite sure of that either!!

[gsxrpilot]

21 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Interesting.  In looking at the rear most seating position in my F it's about 6" off the rear seat (front of the spar) when full aft.  In looking at the short bodies I've been in, the front seat rests against the rear seat when aft against the stop.

That would make sense since they added 5" to the fuselage in the rear legroom area in the F and beyond.

[Shadrach]

Oh and let me warn you on behalf of the folks flying behind parallel valve, carburetted O360s that the injected angle valve IO360s are hard to start (they're actually quite easy to start, but this is a favored critic among the carburetted cognoscenti)

[Shadrach]

2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

That would make sense since they added 5" to the fuselage in the rear legroom area in the F and beyond.

Do you notice a difference in front seating position of your K and your previous C model?

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Fs got a MGW bump to 2740# (from 2575# for the short bodies, which more than offsets the added weight of the longer plane, and larger fuel capacity. The F has about the best UL in the fleet.

Fs are great... except compared to Es for TO distance, climb rate, cruise speed...!

[mooniac15u]

42 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Interesting.  In looking at the rear most seating position in my F it's about 6" off the rear seat (front of the spar) when full aft.  In looking at the short bodies I've been in, the front seat rests against the rear seat when aft against the stop.

The rear seat space difference sounds about right. There was a couple inches in my D but definitely several more in my J. 

Some of the legroom difference in the front seems to be vertical. I think the bottom of the panel is higher in my J. 

[gsxrpilot]

25 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Do you notice a difference in front seating position of your K and your previous C model?

Nope, not at all. There's different cut outs in the side panels for the arm rests, but other than that, it's exactly the same.

[gsxrpilot]

By the way... that E with the great panel, owned by Bob?  Yeah, there's a line around the block to buy that off his widow at some point in the distant future.

[mooniac15u]

12 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Nope, not at all. There's different cut outs in the side panels for the arm rests, but other than that, it's exactly the same.

How tall are you?  Did you fly either of them with the seat all the way back?

At 6'5" I can tell you there is a difference. 

[gsxrpilot]

32 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

How tall are you?  Did you fly either of them with the seat all the way back?

At 6'5" I can tell you there is a difference. 

Nope, I'm of average height, 5'10".  There might be longer seat rails in the mid bodies since there is another 5" back to the spar. But supposedly the cage dimensions and the seat rail positions (front edges) are exactly the same in all Mooney's from Short to Mid to Long bodies.

[flyntgr1]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

Oh and let me warn you on behalf of the folks flying behind parallel valve, carburetted O360s that the injected angle valve IO360s are hard to start (they're actually quite easy to start, but this is a favored critic among the carburetted cognoscenti)

I would say the only real advantage of the parallel valve over the angle valve is overhall cost.  Angle valve cylinders cost twice.

[andymccann]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Fs are great... except compared to Es for TO distance, climb rate, cruise speed...!

Um... I'll take it!

 

[andymccann]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

C's - carbureted, 180hp, short body.
D's - carbureted, 180hp, short body, fixed gear. (Most have been converted to retractable gear, which makes them identical to the C's.)

E's - fuel injected, 200hp, short body.
F's - fuel injected, 200hp, mid-body. (fuselage stretched by 10 inches. 5" in the rear seat and 5" in the baggage area.)

Front seat room is exactly the same in all. The E's will be the fastest and the D's will be the slowest. 

Thank you, pretty much nailed it there.  Imagine... a fixed gear Mooney?

[carusoam]

Fixed gear Mooney's... we have one here on MS still...  go see @Sven

There are still a few left on the FAA registry.  Had one for a while at my home drome.

The difference between a D and a J is time and Money... it takes longer to save or pay for a J.

When you don't need the back seats, the E makes a great retirement plane.

Then there's Dev and our Swiss MSer with the nicest Cs on and off the planet....

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Nope, I'm of average height, 5'10".  There might be longer seat rails in the mid bodies since there is another 5" back to the spar. But supposedly the cage dimensions and the seat rail positions (front edges) are exactly the same in all Mooney's from Short to Mid to Long bodies.

I've alway wondered how they got 5 more inches in back.  Was the rear set in your C ahead of the spar rather than over the spar?

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, flyntgr1 said:

I would say the only real advantage of the parallel valve over the angle valve is overhall cost.  Angle valve cylinders cost twice.

The overhaul delta is not that much. Buying new is where the real difference is!

[Raptor05121]

In 1963 the M20C was $21,999. They released the M20D that year for $13,999. Fixed pitch, fixed gear. No PC, no dorsal fin, no hat rack. For $2-3k, you can convert it to a C. Still no PC, still no hatrack, still no dorsal fin. I even think the C got better radios/panel layout but I cannot confirm.

[HRM]

4 hours ago, andymccann said:

The title may say it all... still educating myself on the breed.  I still think I'm looking for an E, but I'd like to learn as much as I can on the unique traits of each model.  For example, they built a lot of C's, but ended production of D's after a fairly brief run.  I kind of wish Gordon Baxter was still around, I remember he was a real champion of Mooney and he'd probably have a lot to say (still).

Thanks.

The only thing you need to know about E's is that some of them are Super. Find one, fall in love and live happily ever after.