75_M20F Posted March 9, 2017 Report Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) I just came across this STC for you 201 guys. Add 25 HP with a piston change.... http://thenewfirewallforward.com/linked/tnfwf_horsepower_plus_stc.pdf http://thenewfirewallforward.com/tnfwf_2012-2013_new_006.htm Your first choice for quality custom aircraft engines! This Horsepower Plus STC delivers a substantial performance increase that you can see and feel! All without any sacrifices in economy or reliability. Whether you are looking for greater performance, increase in fuel economy, or extended ranges. The Horsepower Plus conversion can exceed factory specifications in areas such as: 9mph Increase in T.A.S.@8000' Rate of climb increase 220 fpm at Vy 12% Reduction in fuel consumption 13% Increase in both range & endurance No decrease in TBO This FAA Approved Horsepower Plus STC Applies to the Mooney 201 and Cardinal RG. Edited March 9, 2017 by Mooney_Mike Quote
goterminal120 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Posted March 9, 2017 When I talked to them about five year ago at Oshkosh the Pistons were $600.00 apiece . They come from a helicopter engine. Quote
1964-M20E Posted March 9, 2017 Report Posted March 9, 2017 Interesting. I'd be game. 225HP pretty good 12.5% increase in HP. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted March 9, 2017 Report Posted March 9, 2017 When I talked to them about five year ago at Oshkosh the Pistons were $600.00 apiece . They come from a helicopter engine. That beats the io-390 in both HP and price, I assume the STC costs some too? Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 9, 2017 Report Posted March 9, 2017 That mod is asking an awful lot for an IO-360. Might be great on a race plane that doesn't expect longevity, but i wouldn't do it on my everyday plane.Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk Quote
75_M20F Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Well, the FAA gave it the okay with a 2,000 hour TBO. Plus, I believe the experimentals have been doing fine with the setup. Edited March 10, 2017 by Mooney_Mike Quote
AH-1 Cobra Pilot Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Seems similar to my (former) C-152 Sparrow Hawk conversion. High compression pistons and a larger prop gave the 110hp engine 125hp. I saw big increases in performance, but the downside was that there was no new POH section for the performance change. TOGW remained the same, too, although it should have been increased. I never came close to TBO before I sold it, so I cannot comment on the longevity. All I can say is I never had any problems with the engine, and I was really happy with the extra power. Quote
Rookie Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Ah-1 Cobra Pilot said: Seems similar to my (former) C-152 Sparrow Hawk conversion. High compression pistons and a larger prop gave the 110hp engine 125hp. I saw big increases in performance, but the downside was that there was no new POH section for the performance change. TOGW remained the same, too, although it should have been increased. I never came close to TBO before I sold it, so I cannot comment on the longevity. All I can say is I never had any problems with the engine, and I was really happy with the extra power. Would you do the conversion to your J at overhaul? Quote
kris_adams Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 This is pretty interesting to me. I'd love to hear from someone who has done it, of course! Quote
carusoam Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Good luck finding a good review on this one... The challenge with going with higher compression pistons is more heat and more effort to monitor the engine more closely. Kind of like changing the timing from 20 to 25° BTDC.... Also look up what it takes to swap out the pistons. If it requires pulling the engine out or not... Cylinder longevity comes from maintaining good CHTs. If going this direction, proceed with both eyes open. Compare price and value to adding a Turbo normalizer with lots of happy Mooney customers. Using the experimental market for comparisons comes with a handful of other challenges. Speed, efficiency, safety and X-country travel, may not be their driving force. Not trying to throw a wet blanket on a good idea, just illustrating the issues that have come up in the past. 10:1 compression pistons work really well in water cooled engines. PP thoughts only. Best regards, -a- Quote
AH-1 Cobra Pilot Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Rookie said: Would you do the conversion to your J at overhaul? Yes. Actually, that is my plan, although it is (hopefully) at least 1800 hours away. 1 Quote
amillet Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 My first M20J (N201XG) purchased in 1990 with two other partners, from an estate, had this engine. We flew it for 5 years, 500 hours with no problems and sold it for $10,000 more than we paid. Not long after that it had an engine failure ( Henry "Black Cloud" was on board). Quote
75_M20F Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, carusoam said: Good luck finding a good review on this one... The challenge with going with higher compression pistons is more heat and more effort to monitor the engine more closely. Kind of like changing the timing from 20 to 25° BTDC.... Also look up what it takes to swap out the pistons. If it requires pulling the engine out or not... Cylinder longevity comes from maintaining good CHTs. If going this direction, proceed with both eyes open. Compare price and value to adding a Turbo normalizer with lots of happy Mooney customers. Using the experimental market for comparisons comes with a handful of other challenges. Speed, efficiency, safety and X-country travel, may not be their driving force. Not trying to throw a wet blanket on a good idea, just illustrating the issues that have come up in the past. 10:1 compression pistons work really well in water cooled engines. PP thoughts only. Best regards, -a- What's the cost of a turbo normalizer? I would guess this STC is significantly cheaper Quote
carusoam Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Doc John is selling one around here somewhere... The TN produces some usable added power at altitude during cruise. A few MS members have them. They often put TN in there avatar data... Best regards, -a- Quote
75_M20F Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Posted March 10, 2017 http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/forsale/N799EC#/sites/airmodsflightcenter.com/files/forsale/N799EC/N799EC_0346-a_forsale_big.jpg This bird has the STC.... Quote
carusoam Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 It also has a raft of added niceties... engine, panel, cowl.... it is listed as sold too...? It's close by if you want me to take a look... Best regards, -a- Quote
ArtVandelay Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 What's the cost of a turbo normalizer? I would guess this STC is significantly cheaper IIRC, $30K. Quote
75_M20F Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, carusoam said: It also has a raft of added niceties... engine, panel, cowl.... it is listed as sold too...? It's close by if you want me to take a look... Best regards, -a- It is a nice bird, that is for sure. I just noticed it had the 225 HP STC is all. I am happy with my 1975 F. I'm not interested in "trading up" Quote
AaronDC8402 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Our 201 has the HP Plus STC for the 10:1 pistons. All of our documentation shows the hp rating as 210 instead of the 225. Not sure what the difference could be, but it's the same company name and sounds like the same modifications. We've got over 1500 hours on the engine with repeated good oil analysis and performance. Cylinders all run about 360 degrees F at 2500/25" with the cowl flaps closed completely, so no noticeable issues with heat. We bought our plane with the conversion, so I can't say how noticeable the power increase is. I've ridden in another J and a F without this STC, and didn't see any dramatic difference compared to our STC'ed plane. If there's a difference it seems to be that our J climbs out better than the J and F that I can compare it to. 3 Quote
KSMooniac Posted March 10, 2017 Report Posted March 10, 2017 Increased HP is most noticeable in takeoff and climb. It takes a lot of extra HP to increase cruise speed measurably. Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk Quote
Bartman Posted March 11, 2017 Report Posted March 11, 2017 I am interested, but...... I typically fly at 9,000 to 12,000 and although you would be at higher HP in the climb, you would ascend quicker and have only a few more HP at cruise altitude. It would be less HP than a turbo normalized IO-360 at cruise altitude. I don't have any experience with a turbo, but it would be easier to operate and if you have good baffles should not run hotter than a turbo engine. However, best I can remember from last time I looked at my engine log that my case is on its 3rd life and hope to get an exchange. I would not rebuild this engine/case/crank with a HP upgrade. Quote
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