Incorrect DC TFR display on ads-b

[DXB]

Here's a head scratcher.  Does anyone else get this 3rd huge outermost TFR ring randomly popping up around the standard D.C. SFRA in flight?  I'm using Foreflight with Stratus 2 for fis-b display.  I never see it on the ground while flight planning.  It's usually labeled "dates unknown" in flight.  The first couple times it happened, I asked Potomac Approach before flying through vfr - they had no idea what I was talking about, so I stopped asking. I thought I should bring up here though so at least I can tell the F-16 pilot "but this guy on Mooneyspace said it was cool" 

I've seen it for the  last 2 years, so I doubt it's a Foreflight bug - they would have fixed by now - I'm guessing it's intrinsic to the fis-b data transmitted.

 

[carusoam]

Interesting...

Who would we contact within the ADSB group?

First thought of people in the know, would be AOPA...

Best regards,

-a-

[201er]

Isn't that just outlining the training required area?

[Deb]

From https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/55/707/SFRA Course Notes 111130.pdf (page 11):

When you look at the Washington DC charts, you will also notice distinct markings for a ring located 60 nm from the Washington DC VOR/DME.

The 60 nm ring is not included in the permanent rule for the SFRA, but it is charted for pilots’ awareness and convenience because of VFR operational restrictions imposed within a 60 nm radius of the DCA VOR/DME.

If you are between the 60 nm ring and the 30 nm ring that marks the boundary of the SFRA, VFR aircraft operations are restricted to a speed of 230 knots unless otherwise authorized by ATC.

Once you are inside the 30 nm ring – that is, inside the SFRA -- all VFR aircraft operations are restricted to an indicated airspeed of 180 knots or less, unless otherwise authorized by ATC.

If you cannot comply with these restrictions, you must advise ATC of your operational limitations and comply with any instructions.

This requirement does not apply to FAA-approved DOD, Law Enforcement, & waivered Lifeguard/Air Ambulance flights. 

[Marauder]

That's an interesting way of projecting the D.C. 60 DME ring. On Garmin Pilot, the ring is not hightlighted either with or without ADS-B.

Here is what it looks like on the ground:


This is a still from a video I made coming out of Leesburg, VA. At this point, i am just outside of the SFRA but well within the 60 DME circle.



Does FF show it light that during flight prep with the app? I seem to remember it being highlighted when I ran a copy of FF for a couple of years.


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[Robert C.]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

Isn't that just outlining the training required area?

That is what the AOPA website says, but as David's quote from the FAA training course notes shows that doesn't seem to be the case. Per AOPA:

This rule impacts any pilot who intends to operate VFR within 60 miles of the DCA VOR/DME.   Pilots have to complete the free online course offered at www.faasafety.gov or attend an FAA Safety Program seminar offered by local flight standards district offices (FSDOs), if and when available.

Upon completion of the online course, pilots should print the certificate of training completion. While the document does not need to be carried with the pilot, it is required to be provided within a “reasonable amount of time” if requested.

The FAA will maintain a database of all the pilots who have completed the FAA’s online training course, and a duplicate copy of the certificate of training completion can be printed at any time without having to re-take the course.

All of the following operations are exempt from the training requirement:

• Pilots operating under instrument flight rules (IFR);
• Law enforcement, military, and aeromedical operations; and
• A pilot who must deviate to the extent necessary to address an emergency situation.

However, if a pilot operating under IFR within 60 nm of the DCA VOR/DME decides to cancel IFR and continue the flight under VFR, he must have completed the training course requirement.

[Marauder]

That is what the AOPA website says, but as David's quote from the FAA training course notes shows that doesn't seem to be the case. Per AOPA:

This rule impacts any pilot who intends to operate VFR within 60 miles of the DCA VOR/DME.   Pilots have to complete the free online course offered at www.faasafety.gov or attend an FAA Safety Program seminar offered by local flight standards district offices (FSDOs), if and when available.

Upon completion of the online course, pilots should print the certificate of training completion. While the document does not need to be carried with the pilot, it is required to be provided within a “reasonable amount of time” if requested.

The FAA will maintain a database of all the pilots who have completed the FAA’s online training course, and a duplicate copy of the certificate of training completion can be printed at any time without having to re-take the course.

All of the following operations are exempt from the training requirement:

• Pilots operating under instrument flight rules (IFR);
• Law enforcement, military, and aeromedical operations; and
• A pilot who must deviate to the extent necessary to address an emergency situation.

However, if a pilot operating under IFR within 60 nm of the DCA VOR/DME decides to cancel IFR and continue the flight under VFR, he must have completed the training course requirement.

I think where the confusion may be that you can operate within the 60 DME arc but you must have completed the training. Once you complete the training, then you would understand that although you don't need to be on a SFRA flight plan because you are not entering the SFRA, you need to comply with the speed restrictions.

As a side note, the training materials posted are not current. The Leesburg ingress/egress transponder code is now the same code: 1226.


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[Marauder]

Latest kneeboard: https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/405/1310/140605%20Kneeboard%20-%20DC%20SFRA%20Checklist.pdf


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[Robert C.]

13 hours ago, 201er said:

Isn't that just outlining the training required area?

That is what the AOPA website says, but as David's quote from the FAA training course notes shows that doesn't seem to be the case. Per AOPA:

This rule impacts any pilot who intends to operate VFR within 60 miles of the DCA VOR/DME.   Pilots have to complete the free online course offered at www.faasafety.gov or attend an FAA Safety Program seminar offered by local flight standards district offices (FSDOs), if and when available.

Upon completion of the online course, pilots should print the certificate of training completion. While the document does not need to be carried with the pilot, it is required to be provided within a “reasonable amount of time” if requested.

The FAA will maintain a database of all the pilots who have completed the FAA’s online training course, and a duplicate copy of the certificate of training completion can be printed at any time without having to re-take the course.

All of the following operations are exempt from the training requirement:

• Pilots operating under instrument flight rules (IFR);
• Law enforcement, military, and aeromedical operations; and
• A pilot who must deviate to the extent necessary to address an emergency situation.

However, if a pilot operating under IFR within 60 nm of the DCA VOR/DME decides to cancel IFR and continue the flight under VFR, he must have completed the training course requirement.

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Hmm. I can't find a reference to training being required between DME30 and DME60 other than in the AOPA material. Do you know where to find it in the FAA NOTAMs?

[DXB]

Thanks all - makes sense. Going back and looking at my screenshot, the "TFR" it does match the 60NM DCA VOR DME circle.  However per the in flight representation on Foreflight, there is nothing to distinguish it from a real pop up TFR.   And it doesn't appear every time I fly in the area, so when do I see it, it gives me pause every time.  

[Marauder]

Thanks all - makes sense. Going back and looking at my screenshot, the "TFR" it does match the 60NM DCA VOR DME circle.  However per the in flight representation on Foreflight, there is nothing to distinguish it from a real pop up TFR.   And it doesn't appear every time I fly in the area, so when do I see it, it gives me pause every time.  

Dev - I think that depiction of the 60 nm ring was like that when I used FF and it was one thing I didn't like about it. Having it project in a different color would have been more preferable. It is a unique airspace.


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[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, Robert C. said:

Hmm. I can't find a reference to training being required between DME30 and DME60 other than in the AOPA material. Do you know where to find it in the FAA NOTAMs?

Try FAR 91.161, entitled, "Special awareness training required for pilots flying under visual flight rules within a 60-nautical mile radius of the Washington, DC VOR/DME."

[jdrake]

+1 for the speed ring