Expensive annual

[NotarPilot]

Well, I just finished up my 5th annual since owning my J.  I decided to use a new shop since my other annuals were always done in a day and I felt they were not as thorough as they should or coupld be.  After some searching and upon the advice of a couple Mooneyspacers I went with Crownair Aviation in San Diego Montgomery Field (KMYF).  I scheduled to drop off my plane on Oct 24th but that got delayed just days prior due to an ongoing problem with my dual mag.  After getting that repaired I was able to drop it off on Oct 31st. Crownair was very accommodating and agreed to do the annual even though I missed my drop off window by a week.  

This led to the annual taking over a month and I finally picked it up on Dec 2nd with a Dec 1st sign off (This was something the shop and I agreed to since the plane wasn't going to be ready until Nov 28th anyways).  

I want to add that I feel like my plane is in very good condition, not perfect, but I am proactive about maintenance and fix issues as they come up.  Within the last year I have IRAN'd the mags, OH'd the prop, repaired a faulty dual mag, repaired a cracked upper cowl, replaced the ignition switch and p-leads, among other minor issues.  Point being I don't let things stay broke very long so I felt like the plane was in decent shape going into the annual.  The basic inspection was quoted around $2,100.  This is double what I usually spend in labor alone in my previous annuals (Not including parts).  I was thinking the annual would end up being maybe $3,000 but surely no more than $4,000.  I was even prepared to stomach $5k if it came to that.

After they did the initial inspection was completed they emailed me a list of 65 tasks, which included the discrepancies.  Not all of the discrepancies were mandatory or airworthy.  Some were "tires worn out."  I felt my tires were still fine and probably could have gone at 6-12 more months before needing replacement but I decided to "throw them a bone" so to speak, and let them replace the mains.  And since they were replacing the mains I told them to go ahead and replace the nose tire too.  

Other issues were discussed and I was given approximate costs, over the phone, on how much other discrepancies would cost to be addressed. I gave approval on certain ones such as replacing the cotter pins in the seat rails with the correct size. I finally got the invoice emailed to me yesterday which came out to a whopping $6,006.  I was a little shocked to say the least.  Most of the costs were reasonable such as an hour to change each tire but some seemed a bit skewed.  Such as .5 hours @ $88 hour to change those 4 said seat rail cotter pins.  I've done this before and I can say this takes about 2 minutes to change all 4 cotter pins.  I was charged 1.5 hours to change the oil.  Something I can personally do in about 30 minutes with the cowl removed and change filters and I'm not a professional A&P by any stretch of the word.  Personally I feel the hardest part of changing the oil is removing the cowlings by myself but they come off as part of the inspection so the actual oil and filter change should be easy and quick.  I also got charged .25 hours (15 minutes) to take an oil sample.  Again, something that takes a couple minutes.  Another issue I saw was being charged 1 hour of labor to secure the landing light wiring and fire sleeve from chafing on the exhaust.  

I brought these billing issues up during the pick up.  I was told the smallest increment of time they can bill for is 15 minutes.  I was also explained why it could take 30 minutes to change the cotter pins because the mechanic "has to go get the cotter pins, put them in and log it."  The logbook entry referencing that task was about 6 words.  

Now I'm not writing this only to complain as they did address and repair some other issues I was not aware of and I'm glad they did that.  The costs on some of those seemed reasonable but the costs on tires seemed excessive.  I was billed $160 for a nose wheel that costs $99.50 at Spruce.  The mains were also more than Spruce.  Had I known this before I would have declined the tires and had my local field mechanic do the work at $70 hr and bought the tires myself.

Pros about this shop:  Very friendly, professional and complete service

Cons: Not providing better estimates on costs to fix discrepancies but this could also partially be my fault.

All this being said I wish I had a better idea and more information before choosing this shop which is why I'm writing this.  I'm happy with the work they did just not so happy with the billing.  Before choosing the shop I asked them what the average annual costs on a J like mine.  He would not answer or even give me a ballpark.  I wasn't trying to nail him down to a number I just wanted to know what the average Joe Shmoe pays for an average annual on a plane like mine.  I even told him I wouldn't expect that to be what mine could cost because I'm aware of the variables.  Still wouldn't give me an answer.  That should have been a sign right there.  Anyways, I hope this helps someone in the future.  Any questions feel free to ask.

Steve

 

[M016576]

26 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

Well, I just finished up my 5th annual since owning my J.  I decided to use a new shop since my other annuals were always done in a day and I felt they were not as thorough as they should or coupld be.  After some searching and upon the advice of a couple Mooneyspacers I went with Crownair Aviation in San Diego Montgomery Field (KMYF).  I scheduled to drop off my plane on Oct 24th but that got delayed just days prior due to an ongoing problem with my dual mag.  After getting that repaired I was able to drop it off on Oct 31st. Crownair was very accommodating and agreed to do the annual even though I missed my drop off window by a week.  

This led to the annual taking over a month and I finally picked it up on Dec 2nd with a Dec 1st sign off (This was something the shop and I agreed to since the plane wasn't going to be ready until Nov 28th anyways).  

I want to add that I feel like my plane is in very good condition, not perfect, but I am proactive about maintenance and fix issues as they come up.  Within the last year I have IRAN'd the mags, OH'd the prop, repaired a faulty dual mag, repaired a cracked upper cowl, replaced the ignition switch and p-leads, among other minor issues.  Point being I don't let things stay broke very long so I felt like the plane was in decent shape going into the annual.  The basic inspection was quoted around $2,100.  This is double what I usually spend in labor alone in my previous annuals (Not including parts).  I was thinking the annual would end up being maybe $3,000 but surely no more than $4,000.  I was even prepared to stomach $5k if it came to that.

After they did the initial inspection was completed they emailed me a list of 65 tasks, which included the discrepancies.  Not all of the discrepancies were mandatory or airworthy.  Some were "tires worn out."  I felt my tires were still fine and probably could have gone at 6-12 more months before needing replacement but I decided to "throw them a bone" so to speak, and let them replace the mains.  And since they were replacing the mains I told them to go ahead and replace the nose tire too.  

Other issues were discussed and I was given approximate costs, over the phone, on how much other discrepancies would cost to be addressed. I gave approval on certain ones such as replacing the cotter pins in the seat rails with the correct size. I finally got the invoice emailed to me yesterday which came out to a whopping $6,006.  I was a little shocked to say the least.  Most of the costs were reasonable such as an hour to change each tire but some seemed a bit skewed.  Such as .5 hours @ $88 hour to change those 4 said seat rail cotter pins.  I've done this before and I can say this takes about 2 minutes to change all 4 cotter pins.  I was charged 1.5 hours to change the oil.  Something I can personally do in about 30 minutes with the cowl removed and change filters and I'm not a professional A&P by any stretch of the word.  Personally I feel the hardest part of changing the oil is removing the cowlings by myself but they come off as part of the inspection so the actual oil and filter change should be easy and quick.  I also got charged .25 hours (15 minutes) to take an oil sample.  Again, something that takes a couple minutes.  Another issue I saw was being charged 1 hour of labor to secure the landing light wiring and fire sleeve from chafing on the exhaust.  

I brought these billing issues up during the pick up.  I was told the smallest increment of time they can bill for is 15 minutes.  I was also explained why it could take 30 minutes to change the cotter pins because the mechanic "has to go get the cotter pins, put them in and log it."  The logbook entry referencing that task was about 6 words.  

Now I'm not writing this only to complain as they did address and repair some other issues I was not aware of and I'm glad they did that.  The costs on some of those seemed reasonable but the costs on tires seemed excessive.  I was billed $160 for a nose wheel that costs $99.50 at Spruce.  The mains were also more than Spruce.  Had I known this before I would have declined the tires and had my local field mechanic do the work at $70 hr and bought the tires myself.

Pros about this shop:  Very friendly, professional and complete service

Cons: Not providing better estimates on costs to fix discrepancies but this could also partially be my fault.

All this being said I wish I had a better idea and more information before choosing this shop which is why I'm writing this.  I'm happy with the work they did just not so happy with the billing.  Before choosing the shop I asked them what the average annual costs on a J like mine.  He would not answer or even give me a ballpark.  I wasn't trying to nail him down to a number I just wanted to know what the average Joe Shmoe pays for an average annual on a plane like mine.  I even told him I wouldn't expect that to be what mine could cost because I'm aware of the variables.  Still wouldn't give me an answer.  That should have been a sign right there.  Anyways, I hope this helps someone in the future.  Any questions feel free to ask.

Steve

 

I have had worse.  I took my first J to LASAR for its first Annual.  "They are the best."  That may be true- but they arnt the most reasonable.  Double digits... well into double digits.  Similar experience.  Great people-know their mooneys... but they charge a HEFTY premium for that knowledge and reputation.

[jonhop]

Unlike this post... I tried to use Crownair for my pre-buy inspection because everyone recommends that one should use a Mooney Service Center for the pre-purchase inspection and they had several glowing recommendations on MooneySpace when I researched them. Crownair cancelled on me at the last minute because they were too busy and reneged on my face to face conversation that I had with their service manager to do the inspection because how busy they were. I scheduled the inspection three weeks out and they cancelled on me the day before..... They should've known how busy they were that far out. I have a feeling that Crownair is a great shop but they are more focused on high end airplanes and are more concerned with warranty work on the newer Mooney's. After that experience, Crownair will not be getting any of my future business even though they apologized on the phone and suggested that they would be available to support any future maintenance that I would need...

Edited December 3, 2016 by jonhop

[Cruiser]

I will offer no comments on the service you received. I can share what my shop charged for similar items you mention.

1. Goodyear 500x5 tube - Aircraft Spruce price $72.00, shop price $111.60

2. recover plane from taxiway and replace above tube - 1.0 hour

3. Sigma-tek vacuum pump. Aircraft Spruce price $699, shop price $761.42

4. Change oil and filter including remove cowl - 1.7 hours

[Zwaustin]

I have no experience with this shop and I appreciate shop reviews as I have had a poor experience at a very popular MSC myself although not regarding cost. With that being said though a $6000.00 annual on an airframe that hasn't seen a MSC recently doesn't sound unreasonable. My airplane is up to date on everything, I have never deferred anything due to cost and a thorough annual at a MSC still runs about $5000 said and done which is a 2-3 week ordeal unfortunately. $2400 for base annual plus squawks in which most of the money is labor not parts. A one day annual sounds very suspicious. 

[Marauder]

Well, I just finished up my 5th annual since owning my J.  I decided to use a new shop since my other annuals were always done in a day and I felt they were not as thorough as they should or coupld be.  After some searching and upon the advice of a couple Mooneyspacers I went with Crownair Aviation in San Diego Montgomery Field (KMYF).  I scheduled to drop off my plane on Oct 24th but that got delayed just days prior due to an ongoing problem with my dual mag.  After getting that repaired I was able to drop it off on Oct 31st. Crownair was very accommodating and agreed to do the annual even though I missed my drop off window by a week.  
This led to the annual taking over a month and I finally picked it up on Dec 2nd with a Dec 1st sign off (This was something the shop and I agreed to since the plane wasn't going to be ready until Nov 28th anyways).  
I want to add that I feel like my plane is in very good condition, not perfect, but I am proactive about maintenance and fix issues as they come up.  Within the last year I have IRAN'd the mags, OH'd the prop, repaired a faulty dual mag, repaired a cracked upper cowl, replaced the ignition switch and p-leads, among other minor issues.  Point being I don't let things stay broke very long so I felt like the plane was in decent shape going into the annual.  The basic inspection was quoted around $2,100.  This is double what I usually spend in labor alone in my previous annuals (Not including parts).  I was thinking the annual would end up being maybe $3,000 but surely no more than $4,000.  I was even prepared to stomach $5k if it came to that.
After they did the initial inspection was completed they emailed me a list of 65 tasks, which included the discrepancies.  Not all of the discrepancies were mandatory or airworthy.  Some were "tires worn out."  I felt my tires were still fine and probably could have gone at 6-12 more months before needing replacement but I decided to "throw them a bone" so to speak, and let them replace the mains.  And since they were replacing the mains I told them to go ahead and replace the nose tire too.  
Other issues were discussed and I was given approximate costs, over the phone, on how much other discrepancies would cost to be addressed. I gave approval on certain ones such as replacing the cotter pins in the seat rails with the correct size. I finally got the invoice emailed to me yesterday which came out to a whopping $6,006.  I was a little shocked to say the least.  Most of the costs were reasonable such as an hour to change each tire but some seemed a bit skewed.  Such as .5 hours @ $88 hour to change those 4 said seat rail cotter pins.  I've done this before and I can say this takes about 2 minutes to change all 4 cotter pins.  I was charged 1.5 hours to change the oil.  Something I can personally do in about 30 minutes with the cowl removed and change filters and I'm not a professional A&P by any stretch of the word.  Personally I feel the hardest part of changing the oil is removing the cowlings by myself but they come off as part of the inspection so the actual oil and filter change should be easy and quick.  I also got charged .25 hours (15 minutes) to take an oil sample.  Again, something that takes a couple minutes.  Another issue I saw was being charged 1 hour of labor to secure the landing light wiring and fire sleeve from chafing on the exhaust.  
I brought these billing issues up during the pick up.  I was told the smallest increment of time they can bill for is 15 minutes.  I was also explained why it could take 30 minutes to change the cotter pins because the mechanic "has to go get the cotter pins, put them in and log it."  The logbook entry referencing that task was about 6 words.  
Now I'm not writing this only to complain as they did address and repair some other issues I was not aware of and I'm glad they did that.  The costs on some of those seemed reasonable but the costs on tires seemed excessive.  I was billed $160 for a nose wheel that costs $99.50 at Spruce.  The mains were also more than Spruce.  Had I known this before I would have declined the tires and had my local field mechanic do the work at $70 hr and bought the tires myself.
Pros about this shop:  Very friendly, professional and complete service
Cons: Not providing better estimates on costs to fix discrepancies but this could also partially be my fault.
All this being said I wish I had a better idea and more information before choosing this shop which is why I'm writing this.  I'm happy with the work they did just not so happy with the billing.  Before choosing the shop I asked them what the average annual costs on a J like mine.  He would not answer or even give me a ballpark.  I wasn't trying to nail him down to a number I just wanted to know what the average Joe Shmoe pays for an average annual on a plane like mine.  I even told him I wouldn't expect that to be what mine could cost because I'm aware of the variables.  Still wouldn't give me an answer.  That should have been a sign right there.  Anyways, I hope this helps someone in the future.  Any questions feel free to ask.
Steve
 

Steve -- I'm not too surprised that it came in high. I'm sure they weren't going to answer the "what is going to cost question?" simpy because they didn't want to set expectations without knowing what they would find with your plane.

If you have access to a mechanic who can do the non airthworthy after the annual, I would have that route if I trusted them. Did they find any safety issues that your regular mechanic missed?


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[jonhop]

16 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

I will offer no comments on the service you received. I can share what my shop charged for similar items you mention.

1. Goodyear 500x5 tube - Aircraft Spruce price $72.00, shop price $111.60

2. recover plane from taxiway and replace above tube - 1.0 hour

3. Sigma-tek vacuum pump. Aircraft Spruce price $699, shop price $761.42

4. Change oil and filter including remove cowl - 1.7 hours

Had a similar tire experience recently. I experienced a nose wheel flat after taxing up to the transient parking at F70. Tire, tube and labor came out to $275.00. Tire and tube were marked up around $20.00 each over what Spruce charges. Spruce is a 15 minute flight from F70 and I would think a FBO would get a discount over us airplane owners... Labor was $100 to change the tire.... Freaking ridiculous when I could've done it in the same amount of time. 

Edited December 3, 2016 by jonhop

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, jonhop said:

Had a similar tire experience recently. I experienced a nose wheel flat after taxing up to the transient parking at F70. Tire, tube and labor came out to $275.00. Tire and tube were marked up around $20.00 each over what Spruce charges. Spruce is a 15 minute flight from F70 and I would think a FBO would get a discount over us airplane owners... Labor was $100 to change the tire.... Freaking ridiculous when I could've done it ins the same time. 

I hope you're kidding, sometimes I have a hard time reading between the lines. 

 

[jonhop]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

I hope you're kidding, sometimes I have a hard time reading between the lines. 

 

I'm not kidding... it was stupid expensive. I have the invoice somewhere and can post it if you don't believe me...

[Bob_Belville]

5 minutes ago, jonhop said:

I'm not kidding... it was stupid expensive. I have the invoice somewhere and can post it if you don't believe me...

Sorry but I'm not sure that was unreasonable. I assume you really were not prepared to go buy a tube & tire from ASpruce and you did not have tools to block up the nose gear, remove the wheel, split the rims, lube, inflate and mount the tube.tire, torque the bolts, etc. A business marking up parts from inventory that they have to keep and charging for their time at their shop rate seems reasonable to me. Maybe that A&P was sitting there waiting for you to need emergency service but more likely they pulled him off a job for a regular customer to deal with a transient. Maybe we need a AAA for airplanes.

OTOH, I had a flat tire @ KOSH this year. $275 under the circumstances would have been very acceptable. It turns out that KOSH is probably the best possible place to need help. Volunteers towed the plane to their maintenance pen where I was able to tie down over night, I went by A.Spruce hangar and bought a tube and helped Dave Staffeldt install it. We checked out a whole box of tools from the maintenance shop. Dave wouldn't take anything for what I'm sure was more than an hour and there was no charge for the other services. I was more than delighted to put $40 in their tool kitty jar. I think the Michelin Air Stop tube was $80. so it cost me $120. I was still smiling when the Caravan powers to be decreed my handle would be "Breakdown".  

BICBW

[Bunti]

A while ago, I had a shop doing an annual and additional work on my Mooney M20F. I was wondering about their prices for parts. 

They explained me that they add 30 percent to the prices they pay. For that amount of money they keep a lot of parts in stock and have them ready, when you need them. Also they guarantee that the parts are working fine. 

After that experience, I started buying most of the parts myself, including oil, filter ... and bring them with the plane to a shop.

In May, I experienced a vacuum pump failure during  flight. I was already enroute to a Mooney shop. My first question after landing was: Do you have the pump available. He had  a new one ready on his shelf and installed it immediately. In this situation, I was happy and  had no problems to pay more money for the pump as at Spruce. 

In regard to the annual inspection, my IA gives me  a detailed list of discrepancies with information, if it is more or less important to fix those things. The list comes also with information about time to fix it and prices for parts. Then it is up to me to order what I want and there are no surprises in the final bill.

[NotarPilot]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 

Steve -- I'm not too surprised that it came in high. I'm sure they weren't going to answer the "what is going to cost question?" simpy because they didn't want to set expectations without knowing what they would find with your plane.

If you have access to a mechanic who can do the non airthworthy after the annual, I would have that route if I trusted them. Did they find any safety issues that your regular mechanic missed?


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Well, I wasn't trying to ask what it was going to cost, I was asking what the average guy usually pays for an annual on a J. I think there's a bit of a difference. Had be said the average is $5,000 I might not have gone somewhere else but at last I could prepare myself for the fiscal shock I eventually received. 

Yes they did find a safety issue, a cracked fuel line so in that respect I think they did a good job. Again, I'm not complaining about the service or work, I think they did an acceptable job. I just spent A LOT more than expected and I felt like I was being billed by a law firm. No disrespect to any attorneys on her. But if they do five tasks that take a few minutes each I end up paying for 1.25 hours worth of work because the minimum billable increment is .25 hours.  

Also, I expect a shop to mark up parts but $60 on top of a $99 tire seemed a little excessive. I think $20-$30 above list price would be more reasonable.

34 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Sorry but I'm not sure that was unreasonable. I assume you really were not prepared to go buy a tube & tire from ASpruce and you did not have tools to block up the nose gear, remove the wheel, split the rims, lube, inflate and mount the tube.tire, torque the bolts, etc. A business marking up parts from inventory that they have to keep and charging for their time at their shop rate seems reasonable to me. Maybe that A&P was sitting there waiting for you to need emergency service but more likely they pulled him off a job for a regular customer to deal with a transient. Maybe we need a AAA for airplanes.

OTOH, I had a flat tire @ KOSH this year. $275 under the circumstances would have been very acceptable. It turns out that KOSH is probably the best possible place to need help. Volunteers towed the plane to their maintenance pen where I was able to tie down over night, I went by A.Spruce hangar and bought a tube and helped Dave Staffeldt install it. We checked out a whole box of tools from the maintenance shop. Dave wouldn't take anything for what I'm sure was more than an hour and there was no charge for the other services. I was more than delighted to put $40 in their tool kitty jar. I think the Michelin Air Stop tube was $80. so it cost me $120. I was still smiling when the Caravan powers to be decreed my handle would be "Breakdown".  

BICBW

Also, I totally agree with Bob here. I think $275 to fix a flat away from your home drome in an hour seems pretty reasonable. I would've felt fortunate just that there was someone there with the part, tools and supplies to make the repair. Had the cost been $400 I'd say that excessive but still probably would've paid it.

[MB65E]

My problem it takes me 2 weeks to rebuild a nose wheel and change said tire and tube. Lol.

I had a scalloped tire, unknown tube that always wanted air, and some light damage on my wheel half retaining clip housing.  Decided to replace the wheel with a used wheel I found on barnstormers. $125 killer deal. New was $650. Came with a serviceable tire and tube, slap it on No problem right?... Well I better check the bearings... Shot. Ordered new PMA'd races and bearings. Those things are expensive. $55 bearings $30 races. Decided to replace the hardware too. Refinish the wheel assy, cleaned light surface corrosion, used pre-kote treatment. $30. first paint job bubbled in the oven. Re-do. Found a better silver high temp. Looks great. $20 in paint and hardware. $165 Goodyear tire from ASC, $75 Michelin tube. Still need to replace one helicoil for my wheel cover. All in all, it looks about as nice as the refinished jet wheels for work I get from Aviall. The ability show fellow mooney guys my hard work... Priceless. Lol.

$275 to get you down the road at F70 is a deal!!

-Matt

[ArtVandelay]

What they didn't tell you is they can NC items (no charge), my MSC does it with small items like your cotter pins (removal,installed) should be part of the inspection process.

[Ratherbflying]

7 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

... since my other annuals were always done in a day...

 

I'm still in shock from reading this statement.

Unless they had a team of a six mechanics working eight straight hours with the precision of an Indy pit crew, these are what is known as a "paper annual".

[Guest]

Hey,

Did you hear the one about the pilot who told the shop owner he wasn't entitled to make a profit?  Yeah he should sell his parts at the prices Spruces charges him(typical Spruce discount 5%) and he should cover the shipping as well and have it in stock when he shows up.  

And his labor rate is wrong, what gives him the right to charge more than he pays his guys?  If you can't make it at that go ask your land lord for free hangar rent and the public utility for free gas and electricity.

Some people shouldn't  own airplanes.

Clarence

[Brandontwalker]

Also, I totally agree with Bob here. I think $275 to fix a flat away from your home drome in an hour seems pretty reasonable. I would've felt fortunate just that there was someone there with the part, tools and supplies to make the repair. Had the cost been $400 I'd say that excessive but still probably would've paid it.

Take it easy on the lawyers. Most, myself included, bill in .1 hour (6 minute) increments.


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[Bob_Belville]

One thing I've learn while getting old is that there are not enough people who have real knowledge and experience and who also are willing to get their hands dirty. When you find one it is a very good idea to appreciate him/her. I have a local A&P/IA, a plumber, a welder, an electrician, an upholsterer, a seamstress... all of whom do not charge enough for what their expertise is really worth,     

[1964-M20E]

While a little high specifically listing and charging time for cotter pins for the seats should have been part of the base annual price.  Considering you did not find anything major and you typically take care of things quickly throughout out the year this exercise verifies your home IA and the inspections and work you have been doing on the plane.  Do not forget when a shop gets a new plane there is a lot of research that needs to be done that takes time.  I know IAs that charge additional $ for a first annual just for that. 

Finally $88 an hour is not a high shop rate I typically pay closer to $100 or more.

 

for the other poster $275 for a wheel change not expensive at all especially considering the cost of having the items there ready to go.

[goterminal120]

Amen Clarence!!!  If paying shop rates and parts markups are too much, either invest how ever many thousands of dollars and time it takes to get your A&P, buy your stock and do the work your self, or sell the airplane. If a 160 dollar tire away from home gets you, there's no way your ready for a broken crank on the road. Just the hanger space rental could hurt your feelings.                    

   We spend tens of thousands of dollars on radios and shiny spiny things we really could do without, but when it comes to maintaining a safe reliable aircraft the first question is what's it gonna cost me. There are shops that truly rip people off, for example. A 172 goes back to the same facility 12 hours and 12 months later, 12,000 dollars. True story. But an extra 1000.00 dollars on an annual for a high performance retract is like spending ten bucks more at the grocery store. It's all relative . A 6 grand annual isn't bad, especially at a new shop were they start over on the research. Every time a new facility is used your paying for another look back at all history events.

    We have picked an expensive hobby that can't be justified for any reason other than it's the most awesome thing ever.

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Ratherbflying said:

I'm still in shock from reading this statement.

Unless they had a team of a six mechanics working eight straight hours with the precision of an Indy pit crew, these are what is known as a "paper annual".

I do owner assist annuals. I have accumulated almost all the tools and supplies needed including jacks and tail weight, 5 hp air compressor, kerosene heater. I have quite a lot of experience taking apart everything need for the inspection. Jacking the plane, removing seats, cowling,, inspection plates, wheels, spark plugs, draining oil, removing the oil filter, cleaning the wheel wells and belly, lubing the heim bearings, removing the battery, topping the hydraulic reservoir, and a few more prep tasks I'm leaving out is a pretty full day (4-6 hours, I'm old and I have a life away from the airport). And I'll reverse all those steps after the actual inspection, measuring, adjusting, bearing repacking... is done by Lynn with me playing dental assistant, fetching mirrors, magnets, assorted wrenches, salves and potions. At this point we might find we need a part or two that needs replacing that neither of us has in stock. I might be told I can button up some of the dismantling. After the parts are secured and installed I can add oil, filter, do safety wiring and put the plane back together. Lynn checks the ELT battery date, the AD and SB history (at this point there are zero or very few that apply to a '66E) and logs the work. 

We've done it in 3 days when I had a trip planned but usually I take closer to 2 weeks. If we punched a clock i/o I'd only log 25-30 hours on task of which <10 are Lynn's.

This year we'll replace the JBar block which is original. I want to remove and straighten a gear door, may need painting. do some other touch up painting. I would estimate that the money I save more than pays for the difference in hangar cost for my private T hangar vs. being in one of the community hangars.  

[Andy95W]

Sorry, I'm with Clarence.  $6000 for a thorough annual at an MSC is definitely not unreasonable.  I thought the OP was going to complain about something north of $10-12,000.

[Danb]

My Bravo I've had since basically new has had 10 annuals totaling $59,700 or an average of $5970 a year with any and all recommended items to fix or repair was done. All annuals were done at MSC's 2x Premier 2x Maxwell and 6x Weber. Basically the $6000 annual is normal to what I'm accustomed to. My lowest was $4009 and highest $9100. All three MSC's charge differently but in the end the cost   is comparable to each other.

[THill182]

For what it's worth: I also had for years a local mechanic maintain my Ovation, and in fairness he did a GREAT job, and was available on-demand. When he retired I took the plane to a well-known Mooney specialist for a thorough annual. That was expensive BUT the plane felt, flew, and just performed better and more reliable for the following year.

Bottom line in my mind: The fair price for an annual is what the market will bear. Of course it is our responsibility to find the best deal and compare prices -- to keep the shops honest. But reality is that there is probably only a single experienced and well-known shop nearby where you live. And if you want to use that shop then you pretty much pay their prices. Further, none of the mechanics or shop owners I know are exactly "wealthy" and most are "good guys" working hard trying to make a living dealing with government regulations (can't imagine trying to run a shop in California), taxes, lawyers and liabilities, unreasonable owners (I do know a few of those), lack of talent ("I can fit you in for that work if you can find me someone I can trust and hire to do the work...."), ....

[LANCECASPER]

$6000 for an annual by an MSC in San Diego Ca on a Mooney that hadn't been to an MSC in awhile doesn't seem out of line. I think there are other MSC's where that same annual would have been pushing $10000. Most likely going to cost more where you live since it costs more to do business there. I'm sure they did some routine things that get overlooked in a one day annual.