L3 9000+ or Garmin GTX-345?????

[Marauder]

I have a feeling that as a card carrying member of the CB's, once you see the quotes, you'll know what to do! Hah!

Yeah, spend more than I should.


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[helitim]

My recent upgrade included the GTN 750, GTX345R, Garmin 225 for Comm 2, vertical card compass, and the iPad mini mount as shown.  So far, I really like the 345R because it freed up valuable panel space in addition to all of the primary functions.  My unit has the Garmin Connext feature which eliminates the need for a 210/510.  I added the Garmin Pilot app to my iPad and now have AHRS, weather, traffic, GPS guidance, etc... all from the 345 via Bluetooth in addition to the absolute WOW of having the 750 and all of its functions.  I also had the glareshield recovered and a few small cosmetic items for just over $21K.  Not sure how that compares to other panels but, I'm pretty happy with the total investment.  Took about 4 weeks to complete.

Tim

Edited October 9, 2016 by helitim

[gsengle]

Love the glareshield! Too many panels would look awesome and then there is the ratty bulging glareshield...


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[Guest]

On October 8, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Marauder said:

I do like the target trends. Will be obtaining quotes on all of the recommendations above and hopefully can make a decision!

Cost of active traffic is about the same as a funeral.  Active traffic was more appealing.

Clarence

[Marauder]

On 10/8/2016 at 3:29 PM, M016576 said:

I have a feeling that as a card carrying member of the CB's, once you see the quotes, you'll know what to do! Hah!

I have once in the past. But I can only sell my first born child once. Not a big demand for second born children, especially since my second born is an eating machine that costs me more to feed than my Mooney.  But he is a good looking lad and maybe someone will overlook the fuel burn. 

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, helitim said:

My recent upgrade included the GTN 750, GTX345R, Garmin 225 for Comm 2, vertical card compass, and the iPad mini mount as shown.  So far, I really like the 345R because it freed up valuable panel space in addition to all of the primary functions.  My unit has the Garmin Connext feature which eliminates the need for a 210/510.  I added the Garmin Pilot app to my iPad and now have AHRS, weather, traffic, GPS guidance, etc... all from the 345 via Bluetooth in addition to the absolute WOW of having the 750 and all of its functions.  I also had the glareshield recovered and a few small cosmetic items for just over $21K.  Not sure how that compares to other panels but, I'm pretty happy with the total investment.  Took about 4 weeks to complete.

Tim

Don't you guys get sick flying around inverted all of the time?

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, helitim said:

My recent upgrade included the GTN 750, GTX345R, Garmin 225 for Comm 2, vertical card compass, and the iPad mini mount as shown.  So far, I really like the 345R because it freed up valuable panel space in addition to all of the primary functions.  My unit has the Garmin Connext feature which eliminates the need for a 210/510.  I added the Garmin Pilot app to my iPad and now have AHRS, weather, traffic, GPS guidance, etc... all from the 345 via Bluetooth in addition to the absolute WOW of having the 750 and all of its functions.  I also had the glareshield recovered and a few small cosmetic items for just over $21K.  Not sure how that compares to other panels but, I'm pretty happy with the total investment.  Took about 4 weeks to complete.

Tim

Do you have any before and after pictures of the glareshield work?

[helitim]

Not specifically of the glareshield.  I do have a couple of general shots of the panel.

My apology if these are upside down.  They are right side up on my iPad.

[Marauder]

Just curious what you did to it. I have a nice crack in mine. Most people do the ultraleather covering but I have seen some cloth coverings as well.

[bradp]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Just curious what you did to it. I have a nice crack in mine. Most people do the ultraleather covering but I have seen some cloth coverings as well.

Same here.  I have a chunk out of the slot that the center tubing goes through that is held together with screws and splits.  Looks ugly as all get up... was thinking about having repaired and recovered. 

[helitim]

The guy charged $200 to take it to his shop and do whatever it is he did.  It looks like a thousand dollar repair.  He cut a slot for the bar and built a custom insert piece.  I will get a photo of it on Wednesday and post.  It is impressive at how much difference a nice glareshield can add or, a bad one can detract. Except for the actual panel upgrade, I am most content with the yokes.  Had them powder coated to match the interior plastic color.  They look and more importantly feel so much better.  Having the nice smooth, soft feeling surface in your hands is really nice. 

Edited October 10, 2016 by helitim

[Cris]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:02 PM, Marauder said:

Well, I have reach the ADS-B chasm and am about to jump in. I have been going back and forth on the ADS-B solutions and have narrowed down my selection to two contenders. I would really want honest feedback on these solutions. There is a big dollar difference in the installed prices and I want to make an informed choice. My challenge is where the GTX-345 is today with Aspen. So, here is what I am looking at;

Garmin 345 with a Flightstream 510. Why? The 345 will display weather and traffic now on my GTN. The avionics shop is telling me that the 345 AHRS will in the near future be able to feed AHRS through the 510 to feed an iPad app. Downside -- the 345 does not display anything on the Aspen at this point. And when it does, it will probably require a $800 unlock key from Aspen. The 510 will allow me to update flight plans using my Garmin Pilot app. I can also update the GTN without removing the 510.

L3 9000+ with a Flightstream 210. Why? The 9000 will immediately feed my Aspen traffic and weather without an unlock code on the MFD. It will also show traffic on my GTN but not weather. With the Flightstream 210, I can obtain AHRS to my Garmin Pilot and will be able to upload my flight plans to the GTN. It also has the ability to show active traffic -- and this is where I struggle. Active traffic will be a real benefit until December 31, 2019. After which, if most planes are flying behind an ADS-B solution, I will not need as much active traffic capability. I will get 3 years of benefit and perhaps a little more flying to areas where ADSB is not required.

Thoughts? Am I missing anything?

Here is a little out of the box thinking for you. I recently reserved the Navworx ADS600-B. This will give you 978 ADSB with weather and traffic. It is about $2200 inc. options for wi-fi for an IPad and will interface with your existing Mode C transponder as well as display on various MFD's. Best of all it can be installed by your A&P at minimal cost and uses no panel space. One caution note is that although it is TSO'd the FAA has a hold on its $500 rebate approval list which is why I have reserved mine for delivery following an Navworx update. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Cris

[Marauder]

Here is a little out of the box thinking for you. I recently reserved the Navworx ADS600-B. This will give you 978 ADSB with weather and traffic. It is about $2200 inc. options for wi-fi for an IPad and will interface with your existing Mode C transponder as well as display on various MFD's. Best of all it can be installed by your A&P at minimal cost and uses no panel space. One caution note is that although it is TSO'd the FAA has a hold on its $500 rebate approval list which is why I have reserved mine for delivery following an Navworx update. 

Hey Cris! When are we doing the next Flying W get together? I looked at the Navworx, FreeFlight and the repackaged FreeFlight Aspen offerings. The challenge was always what would it work with?

The Navworx agreement with Garmin back in March opened up the GTN, unfortunately still need an unlock code for the Aspens and the biggest issue for me was the lack of integration with Garmin Pilot. It's a great low cost solution.

I only wish these manufacturers were forced to open up their hierarchy so our problem would be to select what features and price points we want to entertain.


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[Cris]

Maybe this weekend?

[Marauder]

Maybe this weekend?

I'll need to drive! Don't have 3 wheel drive on my Mooney.


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[Cris]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

I'll need to drive! Don't have 3 wheel drive on my Mooney.


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Well there is always a pick up service if you need a ride. BTW the Navworx ADS600 B has an inexpensive option for ARINC 429 output which they show in a block diagram as interfaceing with the Avidyne glass panel so no unlock key required. 

[Marauder]

Well there is always a pick up service if you need a ride. BTW the Navworx ADS600 B has an inexpensive option for ARINC 429 output which they show in a block diagram as interfaceing with the Avidyne glass panel so no unlock key required. 

Well, the pickup service would work if I met them at an airport with a runway!


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[Bart Chilcott]

Marauder,

What did you decide to do?  Did you go with the L3 or the GTX345?  I'm trying to decide between these two units as well.  I currently have a GTX327, G430W, Aspen 2000 pro, and an active traffic system (Avidyne TAS605).  I'm running XM weather on my Aspens and I probably will keep it as the quality of the free weather on ADSB that I've seen doesn't compare with the XM image.  The Avidyne TCAS is great too and will remain regardless.  Any suggestions you have or thoughts regarding what direction I should go would be appreciated. Plus, I'd really like to know what you decided and why.

Thanks in advance!  - Bart

 

[Marauder]

Marauder,
What did you decide to do?  Did you go with the L3 or the GTX345?  I'm trying to decide between these two units as well.  I currently have a GTX327, G430W, Aspen 2000 pro, and an active traffic system (Avidyne TAS605).  I'm running XM weather on my Aspens and I probably will keep it as the quality of the free weather on ADSB that I've seen doesn't compare with the XM image.  The Avidyne TCAS is great too and will remain regardless.  Any suggestions you have or thoughts regarding what direction I should go would be appreciated. Plus, I'd really like to know what you decided and why.
Thanks in advance!  - Bart
 

Hey Bart -- good to see another crazy avionics man. I went with the L-3 9000+ unit because I wanted active traffic. The L-3 also plays well with the Aspen and comes with the ATAS voice warnings. The ATAS is usually a $667 option but L-3 gives it out free if you attend any of their seminars. I believe both will also fully unlock all of the METAR & TAF features on the Aspen MFD.

They finally unlocked the RTX-345 for the Aspens and the Aspen unlock code is required for both the RTX and the L-3.

I'm also installing an L-3 ESI-500 so I can finally remove the rest of the mechanical instruments and the vacuum system. The 500 can support SVT and Nav inputs. I'm not having the SVT installed but will have the Nav ported over as another backup to the Aspens.

A thing to consider is the iPad you are using. The RTX will support Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight for the ADS-B and also the AHRS. The L-3 will support everything but Garmin Pilot.

Another thing to consider is whether having an extra display is important to you for displaying ADS-B. The L-3 can provide that, the RTX can't. Hope this helps.

PIREP to follow once I get the plane back.




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[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Whiskey Charlie said:

Marauder,

What did you decide to do?  Did you go with the L3 or the GTX345?  I'm trying to decide between these two units as well.  I currently have a GTX327, G430W, Aspen 2000 pro, and an active traffic system (Avidyne TAS605).  I'm running XM weather on my Aspens and I probably will keep it as the quality of the free weather on ADSB that I've seen doesn't compare with the XM image.  The Avidyne TCAS is great too and will remain regardless.  Any suggestions you have or thoughts regarding what direction I should go would be appreciated. Plus, I'd really like to know what you decided and why.

Thanks in advance!  - Bart

 

Damn! That's a nice looking panel for a vintage Mooney. 

[StevenL757]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:02 PM, Marauder said:

L3 9000+ with a Flightstream 210. Why? The 9000 will immediately feed my Aspen traffic and weather without an unlock code on the MFD. It will also show traffic on my GTN but not weather. With the Flightstream 210, I can obtain AHRS to my Garmin Pilot and will be able to upload my flight plans to the GTN. It also has the ability to show active traffic -- and this is where I struggle. Active traffic will be a real benefit until December 31, 2019. After which, if most planes are flying behind an ADS-B solution, I will not need as much active traffic capability. I will get 3 years of benefit and perhaps a little more flying to areas where ADSB is not required.

Thoughts? Am I missing anything?

Not entirely true (as I help you spend your money).

There's a reason many corporate, and all airline operators equip with TCAS-I / TCAS-II.  It will always be more reliable than ADSB /TIS traffic ever will, so your value add here will certainly be realized now, and long after the ADSB mandate.  I won't argue with you that TIS capability will get better and better, but it's like that parabolic curve that gets closer to zero, but never hits zero.  TCAS is already there, and won't turn into a pumpkin on 12/31/2019.

[tigers2007]

Marauder what seminar do you have to attend to get the free unlock for the ATAS? Is this like one of those timeshare "seminars"?


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[Marauder]

Not entirely true (as I help you spend your money).

There's a reason many corporate, and all airline operators equip with TCAS-I / TCAS-II.  It will always be more reliable than ADSB /TIS traffic ever will, so your value add here will certainly be realized now, and long after the ADSB mandate.  I won't argue with you that TIS capability will get better and better, but it's like that parabolic curve that gets closer to zero, but never hits zero.  TCAS is already there, and won't turn into a pumpkin on 12/31/2019.

 

Jeepers Steven! You quoted my 10/6/2016 original post. I've done a lot of educating on the topic since I posted that question. Hence, the reason I am going with the L-3 active traffic solution.

 

Where I still see gaps going forward still revolves around the limitations of TIS-B, the rest of the ADS-B variants (ADS-R, air to air, etc.) and the requirement that you are in ADS-B coverage for some of these features to work.

 

I've also learned that the L-3 ATAS alert system is going to be about as good as it gets for GA unless an economically priced TCAS solution becomes available.

 

 

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[StevenL757]

Just now, Marauder said:

Jeepers Steven! You quoted my 10/6/2016 original post. I've done a lot of educating on the topic since I posted that question. Hence, the reason I am going with the L-3 active traffic solution.

Where I still see gaps going forward still revolves around the limitations of TIS-B, the rest of the ADS-B variants (ADS-R, air to air, etc.) and the requirement that you are in ADS-B coverage for some of these features to work.

I've also learned that the L-3 ATAS alert system is going to be about as good as it gets for GA unless an economically priced TCAS solution becomes available.

Yeah, sorry, I missed that part or your OP, as well as your final decision, so just wanted to get that plug in there.  :-)

And you're right about an economically-priced full-blown TCAS.  I know you'll be happy with your 9000+.  If not, you can blame me .  :-)

[Marauder]

Yeah, sorry, I missed that part or your OP, as well as your final decision, so just wanted to get that plug in there.  :-)
And you're right about an economically-priced full-blown TCAS.  I know you'll be happy with your 9000+.  If not, you can blame me .  :-)

I know we never did get a chance to meet up to see your 9000+ in action. I did however blame you when I signed up to have one installed. It went something like this "Honey, Steven is an airline pilot and he thinks the 9000+ is the way to go"

What actually sold it was giving my wife the iPad 3 with Garmin Pilot running and showing her how much traffic was missed with the GDL-39. Flying VFR down the corridor between Philly and Washington headed towards Ocean City Maryland on a nice summer morning can sell thousands of ADS-B solutions.


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