PIREP-LASER SHOP CHARGES

[kj2016]

I have posted my story about how  I was charged close to 4000k to fix a fuel tank leak when I was only given 5 hour estimate on new to me 2007 ovation. People have asked me to post some paperwork so they can give me honest feedback. This area of leak was also worked by weep no more in 2012 and they only charged 250 at the time. so here we go!  I want everyone to know that they only sealed the area of leak and not the entire tank and it is 2007 ovation 3. I am in the process of canceling my credit card payment and  willing to go to small claim court! Any feedback is appreciated. I don't want to cheat someone of his honest hard work and at the same time I don't want to be cheated

Edited June 26, 2016 by Kuljit hundal
Typo

[carusoam]

Face to face, eye to eye, sit down discussion..?

Lasar is one of the top providers to the Mooney community, world wide.

They have a history of being highly respected.

They are Not known for abusing customers.

There are several other places that have taken advantage of Mooney clients.

I hope you find a resolution.

Best regards,

-a-

[1524J]

Kuljit Hundal, I really feel for you but my advice would be not to take this issue to a public forum.....especially if you intend on pursuing legal action. Just sayin'.....

[Mooneymite]

6 minutes ago, 1524J said:

Kuljit Hundal, I really feel for you but my advice would be not to take this issue to a public forum.....especially if you intend on pursuing legal action. Just sayin'.....

Wisdom!

[Bob_Belville]

This is not the way to handle a disagreement with a repair shop. Certainly not if it has not been preceded by an effort to resolve your dissatisfaction. We have no way to judge whether your tank needed a complete reseal or what you were or were not told and what you agreed to or authorized. 

As Anthony observed Paul Loewen and LASAR enjoy a fine reputation among Mooney owners particularly for innovative mods and their efforts to keep our plane flying while the factory was almost in mothballs. 

 

[kj2016]

Thanks for the response! I

have been aircraft owner since 2003 even though not mooney. I also own Baron 58p and Cessna 182.  I am very well aware of shop's reputation of good work and that is why I took my mooney 5 months ago for pre buy and annual and paid 10k for additional minor work. I paid 10k without a single question. I trusted them when they gave me 5 hour estimate to seal a leaking area . I tried to tell Paul that it is not fair. They should have informed me about the hours as they were doing the work . It is not a very old plane so entire tank did not require resealing. I have posted the paper work since other readers wanted to see it. I am sure LASAR has done excellent work in the past but that does not give them license to deviate from fair billing! I will post the outcome. I think it is fair game to post something like this so others can be informed and they can judge the evidence on their own. 

[Rustler]

I would be very, Very, VERY careful of accusing someone of committing fraud on this or any forum. Fraud has a fairly specific meaning in law, and if what you are describing here is not fraud, you have opened yourself up to some potentially nasty  remedies.

Might it not be wiser to sort out your problem in private, then report on the outcome?

 

[Danb]

Tough situation, if you were told that the tank needed patch work with an estimate of 4-5 hours and/ or not to exceed quote I would:

1. Try to get an amicable solution

2. If not solved I would stop the credit card charge if not to late, then wait for them to sustain  legal costs. If it was to late go to court.

3. If you were screwed for sure and it appears you were, you definitely should let other Mooney owners know. I would not consider the use of the word fraud unless your completely sure you were defrauded in the eye of the courts and don't want to incur legal costs defending your words. That said if you were defrauded he should have his nuts ripped off.

4. I would report the situation to the Mooney corporation if Laser is a certified service center, they say they are on there website.

I appreciate you reporting this situation in the advent that one of the MSers won't have a repeat 

 

 

 

 

[DXB]

Your situation sounds very frustrating, and it may be unwise to go much further until the anger dies down a bit.  It's certainly possible to feel cheated in absence of  real intent by a shop to rip someone off.  I personally have found clear communication on the work to be done and what it will cost can be tough to achieve, even with reputable shops. But it's nearly impossible to resolve these kinds of disputes productively when you're really pissed off.  Also you may find better advice on how to handle the situation in general if you keep the names of shops and people held in high regard in the community out of it, at least at this point in the game.

[kj2016]

Thanks for feedback! Will refrain from word "fraud". I am trying to help others with  my story as well. There are many bad guys in the industry that are making flying unaffordable for so many and forum

like this really helps ! 

[Danb]

20 minutes ago, Kuljit hundal said:

Thanks for feedback! Will refrain from word "fraud". I am trying to help others with  my story as well. There are many bad guys in the industry that are making flying unaffordable for so many and forum

like this really helps ! 

Actually alerting us to these situations are very helpful, I personally appreciate the notification.

[Bennett]

What puzzles me here is that I ALWAYS get a call, or email, from LASAR whenever they find something not previously discussed, or where the scope of work is beyond what we anticipated. I have been bringing my Mooneys to LASAR for over 30 years, and obviously I wouldn't do so if I felt I was being "ripped off". Over the years I have had other MSCs do some mods or services to one of the Mooneys, and I have always had excellent experiences with them. To be fair, I bring LASAR a written list of my "squawks", and they aways send me a written notice of agreed (and deferred) work with estimated costs, which in all candor, are normally close, but not exact. I am in contact with Paul or Dan at LASAR all through the annual or repair process; hence no surprises. To me, I am willing to pay for meticulous performance, acknowledging that there are less expensive shops in the area. Have they ever made a mistake? Yep, and as soon as I discovered a problem, it was taken care of for me - flying down a mechanic at their expense to fix whatever might need repair or adjustment. And I know that LASAR has done the same for at least one other pilot/owner at KSQL. I hate to see this forum used to bash a shop that has been long servicing the Mooney community. Mentioning the fact that Paul is now wheel chair bound is a low blow, and has nothing to do with the performance of his staff, or his ownership supervision.

[ArtVandelay]

I assume the estimate was a verbal agreement...this why I try to use email and will send email if they call with "As discussed ...."

I think someone was joking but maybe they did say 45 instead of 4 to 5.

[Guest]

Obviously there is something missing in this story.  I think once emotions cool a bit you should call Paul or Sherry and discuss the situation, surely there is an explanation.

Clarence

[DXB]

Just now, teejayevans said:

I assume the estimate was a verbal agreement...this why I try to use email and will send email if they call with "As discussed ...."

I think someone was joking but maybe they did say 45 instead of 4 to 5.

Yeah this is a great point.  Use e-mail as backup to confirm verbal conversations whenever possible. "He said she said" stuff on the tail end is miserable.  

[kj2016]

Once again I am proud to be part of this community. I really appreciate some of the feedback I have received. I think it is my duty to share my experience with a shop. It is just my experience and intelligent reader should keep my experience with this shop in mind in future when dealing with them. I can't be faulted for sharing my experience since shop has been very good in the past. Past is not a guarantee for the future.  I will write an email to shop tomorrow and offer to pay for double the hours I was quoted by his mechanic Chris when I brought the plane but not the 4k bill. I will update everyone here on the matter. We all make mistakes and may be shop will be brave enough to slash my bill. I don't mind posting my email at this forum if some

readers want to see it! once again I am thankful to those who appreciated my posting on the shop! It is not easy for me to do this! I have plenty of money. Thanks

[Tom]

-LASAR did my prebuy which I had converted to a blank-check annual.  They repaired/replaced some stuff, deferred other stuff with tolerance advice to monitor.  Completely honest, pleasure to do business with. 

-The OP seems like the kind of guy who'd buy a Bentley but skip the dealership maintenance to save a few dollars, then threaten to sue the poor corner gas station mechanic for over-charging him.  The beauty of going to a place like LASAR is that when you get a $4k bill, you know that your bird needed $4k worth of work.  That $4k worth of work maybe could have been done a little cheaper down the street, but not by someone who knows Mooneys so well.  There's a greater chance that down the street you'd get a $6K bill for people learning on your plane AND end up with a sub-par job in the end.

-My home IA tells me stories about guys like this.  There's a special place in heaven for IAs who have to deal with these whiney new-money clowns who have no appreciation for the true value of what an honest and skilled shop provides.  

35 minutes ago, Kuljit hundal said:

We all make mistakes and may be shop will be brave enough to slash my bill.

I'll pay your bill in total if you agree to completely get out of aviation and agree to never let anyone know that you tainted a Mooney with your presence in it.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, Tom said:

I'll pay your bill in total if you agree to completely get out of aviation and agree to never let anyone know that you tainted a Mooney with your presence in it.

 

 

<chuckle>

I recently took my friend and local A&P/IA to MooneyMax and Kerrville. Mooney owners are blessed to have folks like DMax, Paul Loewen and several more veterans dedicated to keeping us safe.

[kj2016]

Tom! I appreciate your feedback. I don't need your money since I might have more than u. It is my right to voice my concern and if you dont like it you don't have to read or respond. May be no one taught you about freedom of speech! 

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, Kuljit hundal said:

Tom! I appreciate your feedback. I don't need your money since I might have more than u. It is my right to voice my concern and if you dont like it you don't have to read or respond. May be no one taught you about freedom of speech! 

Hahahah... actually you have to learn about freedom of speech. That only means the government can't prosecute you for your speech. It doesn't protect you from criticism. Tom has the same ability to speak as you do.

While we're handing out advice... the last guy who came on here and threw Don Maxwell's shop under the bus, hasn't been heard from again and doesn't see any Mooney business.

[kj2016]

i have been in aviation for the last 13 years and own three planes and I am not going anywhere. So don't worry! For Tom' information last fuel repair was performed by weep no more which has bigger name than LASAR in repairing fuel tanks! 

[kj2016]

Tom sorry to break your heart on your beloved shop. Don't cry too much! 

[N201MKTurbo]

I was at a Mooney event in Lake Tahoe about Ten years ago, Paul, Sherry, Don Maxwell, Top Gun, we're all there and I got to talk and drink with all of them. They are not gods or rich people, they are just regular people just trying to get by. They all seemed very honest and very concerned about keeping the Mooney airplanes going. 

Im sure they did all the work they charged you for, there was obviously a mis communication about what work was needed. 

I hope you get it resolved. And I'm confident the work was done well.

Edited June 27, 2016 by N201MKTurbo

[DXB]

We might need a new Forum entitled "Self-righteous pissing matches with inevitably self-defeating outcomes" to help re-categorize these threads.

[Bob]

Just now, DXB said:

We might need a new Forum entitled "Self-righteous pissing matches with inevitably self-defeating outcomes" to help re-categorize these threads.

It is stuff like this, the back and forth pissing contest that makes me want to sign out for two or three weeks.  The question I ask myself is "what little part of this is constructive"?