A Landing Slump?

[ArtVandelay]

I confess, I too haven't had many greasers lately...   I wonder if the quick change in temperatures have anything to do with it?  Do you think the thicker cold air would feel different for the same IAS?  

I figured I was just rusty, but I reminded myself recently to be more cognizant of the changing conditions that come so quickly this time of year.  Has anyone experienced easier landing in winter vs summer or is it just another golf club rationale?

If you can feel the difference between cold,warm air you're more attuned than I am.

Try changing you seat back position.

Have your eyes checked.

Take it the mechanic, tell him to grease the flight controls, because they're sticking a little (golf club analogy).

[Browncbr1]

It may be that I've been working on going a little slower over the numbers and this changes things a little and i'm just still getting used to it..   I did notice yesterday that my right yoke phenolic ball is vibrating when pulling the yoke back and forth.  Time to break out the graphite powder!

[bonal]

anyone experienced easier landing in winter vs summer or is it just another golf club rationale?

Ah yes winter rules..."HEY WHITEY WHERES YOUR HAT"

[gsengle]

Another thought. Landing is best done through understanding the aerodynamics of the situation and being able to use stick and rudder skills to FLY the landing.

This isn't like a tennis serve or a golf swing where you rely on it to be consistently the same every time and the "muscle memory" is all you need. I think focusing too much on making every situation the same prevents the real skill which is all stick and rudder... IMHO

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[Yetti]

I got knocked around twice on flare. So I put a wing down and no more drama on the flare.    Did you try putting a wing down into the wind?  Half flaps or full?

[Piloto]

Try raising the flaps 5ft agl before touchdown. It will raise the nose slightly and set the plane firmly on the ground on the mains.

José

[Wakeup]

I was accidentally hitting the brakes on landings so I started putting my seat back one notch.  I think it helped me stay off the breaks plus I got a little extra room between me and the panel now.  I am a low time pilot so if this is not a good idea please advise.  

[Hank]

39 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Just keep your feet off of the tops of the pedals entirely until after you have lowered the nose. Then you can reposition them up the pedals if necessary for braking, which honestly rarely should be necessary unless you are operating out of strips shorter than I suspect most of us do in our Mooneys.

Some braking is required to make the midfield turnoff at the 5000' field I was based at. Now I'm somewhere short again, 3200', with a taxiway and three exits [both ends, and off-center in the frequent direction]. I still brake modestly; if I overshoot, I again brake modestly in order to turn around to the right and back-taxi. I think I've done "heavy braking" maybe once . . .

But I raise the flaps while holding throttle to idle after the nose comes down, and don't try to brake until under 50 mph. Pads are expensive, and while I am allowed to remove the brakes to split the wheel, I am not permitted to replace the pads while they are off. Who thinks up these ridiculous regulations????

Edited April 28, 2016 by Hank

[jlunseth]

17 hours ago, Wakeup said:

I was accidentally hitting the brakes on landings so I started putting my seat back one notch.  I think it helped me stay off the breaks plus I got a little extra room between me and the panel now.  I am a low time pilot so if this is not a good idea please advise.  

Just for fun, go get a tailwheel endorsement.  You won't ever make that mistake (riding the brakes during landing) again.  You will learn a lot more about the rudder than you ever will in one of our aircraft.

[Jeff_S]

Happy to report that all is not lost...two good greasers in a row in Kennett MO and Olathe KS.  All those tips definitely helped!

[ArtVandelay]

Happy to report that all is not lost...two good greasers in a row in Kennett MO and Olathe KS.  All those tips definitely helped!

But which one worked?

[Jeff_S]

Like I said, big feet, small rudder pedals. I actually just concentrated on keeping my feet low and active on the pedals to avoid the brakes and that stopped the unexpected RLOC. I had just gotten into a bad habit of braking too quickly...stupid little thing, eh? Tomorrow looks to be a good test, calling for 15 knot crosswinds in Wichita...fun fun fun!

[DXB]

In short, my landings suck- float forever though I seem to be on speed when starting the flare.  I'm getting the idle setting on my carb turned down.  Will get back to you if anything gets better- nobody hold your breath.

[Marauder]

In short, my landings suck- float forever though I seem to be on speed when starting the flare.  I'm getting the idle setting on my carb turned down.  Will get back to you if anything gets better- nobody hold your breath.

Do you air speeds match on the Aspen and ASI? If I am flying light, I reduce my airspeed 2 to 3 knots.

[DrBill]

I've recently had same problem.  3 mos w/o flying during major  O/H.

found I had to get s l o w e r. took a 1/2 day of practice to get back in the saddle.

Bill

 

[jlunseth]

When I was getting ready for my commercial I saw a local, very good instructor to help prepare for the checkride.  One of the maneuvers is, of course, the short field landing and touchdown needs to be minus 0 plus 200 feet of a spot, which is not that easy when you fly a floater.  The instructor, Fred, showed me a trick that works great and I now call it the "Fred maneuver." If you are going to be a little long you lower the nose, then lift it right at touchdown.  

Now, we all know what lowering the nose can do, especially in a Mooney.  Nose first touchdown, porpoise, worst case is a prop strike, so we hold that nose off to keep that from happening and never push the yoke forward to make the runway.  This "Fred maneuver" is different though.  You don't push the nose down and you don't let it go nose first into the runway.  You just let the yoke relax a little and let the plane fly flat until the last minute.  Its the difference between landing with the nose wheel a few inches off, and landing with it more than a foot off the runway.  (I don't get out and measure, no).

Getting a sense of that really helped my landings generally.  I was working too hard to hold the nose off.  Pulling back, pulling back as the aircraft floated and lowered to the runway.  What that does, is slow the plane (induced drag) and raise it (increased lift) until it just runs out of lift and falls the last couple of feet or the last few inches to the runway.  Falling makes for bouncing, not necessarily porpoising, but hitting on the mains and bouncing, and especially in gusty conditions bouncing sucks.  The Fred method takes more touch and skill but gives you much better landings.

I don't claim perfection, but better is good.

[Ragsf15e]

I like the slow flight idea, but how about something a little more fun to help out your landings... Go find a taildragger and a good instructor to do your signoff.  It's a lot of fun, a bit humbling, and it will really force you to land well.  You think your Mooney swerved at touchdown? You ain't seen nothing!

 

seriously, it's well worth it and fun.

[MyNameIsNobody]

This thread is hilarious.  Love the braking on rollout comments...Too funny.  Put the seat back so you don't brake.  Heh heh.  That's a good one.  Free will is a MF.  Fight the urges...Come on...you can do it.  FAIL.

[MyNameIsNobody]

When I FUP a landing or a golf shot I know exactly who not what is responsible.  Sticky yokes, elevator mischief....Again, FUNNY. I think I need my carb idle checked...HILARIOUS...

[wishboneash]

13 hours ago, DXB said:

In short, my landings suck- float forever though I seem to be on speed when starting the flare.  I'm getting the idle setting on my carb turned down.  Will get back to you if anything gets better- nobody hold your breath.

It turned out I had a small air leak in my intake manifold that would keep idle high. This resulted in long landing runs and unnecessary need for braking. Fixed that, everything good again and my brakes are happy. 

[Jeff_S]

20 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

When I FUP a landing or a golf shot I know exactly who not what is responsible.  Sticky yokes, elevator mischief....Again, FUNNY. I think I need my carb idle checked...HILARIOUS...

"The unexamined life is not worth living."  -- Socrates

Well, at least we know that Nobody on this forum has such a high opinion of himself!

[MyNameIsNobody]

29 minutes ago, Jeff_S said:

"The unexamined life is not worth living."  -- Socrates

Well, at least we know that Nobody on this forum has such a high opinion of himself!

You had zero insight into what I wrote.  That's on you not me.  It wasn't that complicated so maybe you need to examine it a bit more.  Let me clarify:

When I have a poor landing I don't make excuses.  I know it was my error.  (See list of excuses blaming "it", the poor landing on many areas that aren't in the mirror looking back at them.

Putting your seat back so you don't hit the brakes is a poor technique.

Using heavy braking to "make your turn-off" is poor technique.

Both could, and have resulted in RLOC incidents, blown tires, excessive brake wear.

I know there would be "that guy" that thought I was being arrogant with my reply.

My $%^& stinks.  I know it.  I know where it came from though.  I courtesy flush and light a match.

I don't blame random food, the moon, my excessive habits or the toilet seat for the smell.

So, in summary I take offense at your offense.

Just examined my ears and nose.  There is hair in there.  I take scissors and tweezers and eliminate it...

How is that for examining...

Oh joy, I life worth living.

FAIL.

[Mooneymite]

11 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

When I have a poor landing I don't make excuses.  

You are hereby notified that your credentials as a "real pilot" are summarily removed!

REAL pilots can always come up with an excuse!

Perhaps this thread could morph into some of the more bizarre (but completely valid!) excuses.  Personally, I use the phase of the moon.  

[MyNameIsNobody]

Duly noted.  I am "good"...with that.

[MyNameIsNobody]

How about the thread morph into the importance of accepting responsibility.  Individual accountability.  A lot of "real pilots" are just like 20 somethings.  Way to be young.  You know 20-somethings they are all about introspection and owning "it".  Congrats.