Should I Buy?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Bruce, the main concern would be the camshaft and the lifters. Have your mechanic stick a scope down the oil fill tube and take a look see. Also see if you can get an oil sample and cut open the oil filter. Just be prepared to hang an engine on it.

There is no way to see the cam and lifters on a 4 cylinder Lycoming other than removing cylinders.

Clarence

[Raptor05121]

17 hours ago, M20Doc said:

There is no way to see the cam and lifters on a 4 cylinder Lycoming other than removing cylinders.

Clarence

Hm, I heard the oil fill tube trick once, I guess I misheard or was told incorrectly. Thanks for correcting me.

[C-GHIJ]

Welcome to the site Bruce.  You will love the Mooney. it's a great plane.  Yes you can do your PPL in it, my partner and I did ours in the Mooney we purchased.  COPA had the best rates for low time pilots that we found.  Hope all goes well with the purchase.  Where in NS are you based. my son is at Greenwood.

[Kejidog]

GHIJ thanks. I am really trying to get my head around operating costs and some info on Canadian Annual averages and the like. I would be very interested in the crosswind capabilities of the retractable gear as well. I am in Halifax but am taking Lessons in Debert CCQ3. I know Greenwood well I spent a few summers there in Air Cadets. And now my oldest son is going there this summer.  Also the prop maintenance schedules and the like 

[C-GHIJ]

give me a call around 9 or 9:30 your time at 226-203-4332  Lee

[garytex]

My advise would be to seek a more local airplane.  Close means that you have lots less sunk costs in running all the pre-buy traps.  Have patients, learn to land in someone else's plane, something will probably turn up locally while you are learning to land.

[Guest]

On April 18, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Kejidog said:

Hello Users

 

This is my very first post to this site. I just signed up tonight looking for some good information. I am reading lots of posts and hope i put this in the right subfourm.

 

I am considering purchasing my first ever aircraft. I was hoping to do this one time only and have set my search for a good used Mooney. I have found a  1969 M20G with a high hour  Lycoming o-360 with 2024 hours SMOH. It seems to be a good runner with compression @ 75,77,78,77 at last Annual Aug 15, No tank leaks. All AD's done. 4000 TTAF and flown regularly and quite recently. 2 owners since new and always hangared. Looks like a clean well cared for plane. Well at least from the pictures i have seen anyways. Perfect for my family and the type of cross country flying i envision myself doing. I am a shift worker with lots of free time and finances to get up in the air hopefully as often as my family allows me. 

My question(s) is, would it be worthwhile to purchase this aircraft for the value of the airframe alone and replace the engine immediately?  Or continue flying untill some problem dictates replacement or overhaul?  I would have a mechanic not associated with the seller check it out thoroughly and perhaps do the Annual as part of my pre purchase inspection.  I would try to be present for the Annual if the outcome was satisfactory based on the report i get. This would allow me  to really get into the mechanics of the plane. I would be flying a considerable distance to get it home and want it made "right" to get me there . I would have the PPI done before i would fly out to see it in person. 

 

I will also say I am a student without a PPL and will use this plane for my training and solo flight test. I want to aquire hours and not have the hassle of renting the one useable plane at my flight school to do this. Is this too much of an aircraft for me to learn to fly on?  I have 5 hours so far and no solo yet. I am planning on purchasing something to fly my lessons on anyways and this plane popped up in my search within my budget. I am also concerned about my insurance costs.  I have  always loved the look and performane of Mooneys. I would be cross countrying with my flying instructor or the owner so no worries about getting it home and lots of time to get to know the plane. Hopefully I have given you folks lots of info. My other option is a Grumman AA1b for not much less purchase price. I do want a 4 person aircraft though to travel with my family in the hopefully not too distant future  

 

Any advice and tips on what to look for would be appreciated. 

 

Here's a few Canadian F models.

http://www.csplane.com/7780.htm

http://www.apexaircraft.com/inventory.htm

Clarence

[Yetti]

Mooneys are great in a cross wind. I was doing 14 gusting to 20 at  020 runway 34.  I have had 10 knot direct cross winds and no problem what so ever.

[Kejidog]

On April 24, 2016 at 5:59 PM, C-GHIJ said:

give me a call around 9 or 9:30 your time at 226-203-4332  Lee

It was great speaking with you Lee. You really raised my confidence. I am still waiting to hear back from the AME on the ppi. 

Hopefully he has some good advice for me. Thanks everyone on here too. I am really learning a lot. I like the avgas sump idea. I figure i will do that one just to clean out the sump. 

[Kejidog]

Well i have heard from the AME i had looking at the plane. It is a bit of an eye opener for me. I found that there was a service bulletin # 475 that deals with a propeller replacement he had done several hundred hours ago due to a stone chip. It has become an AWD 2004-10-14. A few exhaust gaskets leaking and a rocker cover gasket  and perhaps the aileron rods. I have been reading up on these here and would make a decision when I get out there. And the tail hinge bolt seems worn  

 

the compressions seemed good  80 75 75 and 80  so that sounds promising. I am looking at a few hours before a major, hopefully

 

And some other things that sort of stuck out to him. 

 

I have tried search and have come up blank on a manual for this model. anyone  have a thought on this. Also any info on the G would really be appreciated. 

 

Thanks

 

[bonal]

I May have missed it somewhere but don't forget the title search

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Kejidog said:

Well i have heard from the AME i had looking at the plane. It is a bit of an eye opener for me. I found that there was a service bulletin # 475 that deals with a propeller replacement he had done several hundred hours ago due to a stone chip. It has become an AWD 2004-10-14. A few exhaust gaskets leaking and a rocker cover gasket  and perhaps the aileron rods. I have been reading up on these here and would make a decision when I get out there. And the tail hinge bolt seems worn  

 

the compressions seemed good  80 75 75 and 80  so that sounds promising. I am looking at a few hours before a major, hopefully

 

And some other things that sort of stuck out to him. 

 

I have tried search and have come up blank on a manual for this model. anyone  have a thought on this. Also any info on the G would really be appreciated. 

 

Thanks

 

I think there is some confusion.  The AD and SB go hand in hand, they define what is a propeller strike and the actions for engine inspection and repair. Damage to a propeller requiring repair greater than filing a knock and painting is a "prop strike" requiring compliance with the SB which calls for replacing the crankshaft gear retaining bolt.

SB 533 defines actions for a prop strike or sudden stoppage.

Clarence

[Kejidog]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I think there is some confusion.  The AD and SB go hand in hand, they define what is a propeller strike and the actions for engine inspection and repair. Damage to a propeller requiring repair greater than filing a knock and painting is a "prop strike" requiring compliance with the SB which calls for replacing the crankshaft gear retaining bolt.

SB 533 defines actions for a prop strike or sudden stoppage.

Clarence

No not my confusion. Just my bad summary. He had a stone chip in one blade and replaced the prop under insurance. My guy doing the PPI pointed it out to the owner. It was happened in 2007. The owner seemed to be unaware of the issue. He's said he's having it addressed before the sale. Or i may get it done by the guy who inspected it. And maybe take the cost off the purchase price. Thanks for reading and following my ramblings. 

[Kejidog]

4 hours ago, bonal said:

I May have missed it somewhere but don't forget the title search

I have looked in BC but Canadian system is not as easily checked here. We need to look in every province for any leans. 

[Yetti]

The valve cover leaks are easily fixed with silicone ones.   It take a while to get the old cork gasket off and everything really clean. but it is 4 screws per cylinder.

Exhaust gasket leaks are not hard either.  Buy some new studs, gaskets and mouse milk for the slip tubes.  Remove, clean everything up with some emery cloth mouse milk everything.  reinstall and torque properly

What condition were the hoses in?  It is 1.1 AMUs in USD to buy a new set...

[Samurai Husky]

Sorry, had friends in town for the past week so i am just getting caught up; 

Personally, dont even look at planes until you get to landings. Once you can land a plane in cross wind then see about renting a mooney at a flying club with a local CFI; The difference between a low wing plane and a high wing plane is night and day (yes, i finally flew a 172 because my plane is in the shop  ). You can get a way with a lot in a 172 that you cant even think about in a sr20 (i would say mooney, but i dont have the balls to go rent one yet).

You can easily get caught up in the excitement of owning a plane; but at 5 hours (probably more by now), you dont really know anything yet. Im just barely at 20hrs and looking back i can easily say i was way over zealous in my posts.  Even at 20hrs i feel like I'm still a ways away from solo. While I am not saying that it cant be done, just understand that you will probably end up spending a lot more time getting to PPL then you otherwise would have, which means you are paying a CFI to sit next to you until you are capable. He will not let you solo in a mooney until you are capable. Which means you will probably start your training over from scratch. Just because you can solo in a 172, doesnt mean you have authorization to fly a mooney; you will need the complex endorsement and possibly high performance endorsement. 

Planes are not like used cars, they tend to sit for a long time. So i would say put in another month or 2, get to solo, then do a check ride in a mooney with a CFI and see how it goes. 

The next problem i see is getting a high engine time and trying to do your PPL; There is a high probability that the plane will need a OH before you finish; Correct me if I am wrong, but that means the plane is probably out of service for a few months. If you dont make solo before  OH, then you could end up a lot worse off than you think as your skills will start to stale waiting for your plane to get fixed.

Do get me wrong, keep shopping, keep looking because its fun, but only treat it as fun. Dont get serious about a plane until you know for sure. Its like women, you need to date them for a while before you bring them home to meet the family. 

who would have thought that i would be the voice of pessimism?

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

To quote Virginia Slims: You've come a LONG way baby...

[Samurai Husky]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

To quote Virginia Slims: You've come a LONG way baby...

yep... there are a lot of things early on that you say to yourself 'gee, this sounds like a good idea' and then you get closer to solo and you think, If my CFI wasn't here i would be screwed. Compound that with adding additional complexities and i can see where things can start getting you messed up; I for one would NOT want to learn to land in my own plane.

I think the turning point was getting to landings and then being told 'my mic jack doesnt work, its all on you today' puts things into perspective. Its one thing to fly the plan, another to land it and entirely different thing to do everything and be on the comms,  

[Raptor05121]

On 4/29/2016 at 5:20 PM, Kejidog said:

the compressions seemed good  80 75 75 and 80  so that sounds promising. I am looking at a few hours before a major, hopefully

Did this throw a red flag to anyone else? I was always told that piston rings are not a perfect seal, and as such, you'll never get 80psi due to an ever so present leakage.

[yvesg]

Kejidog, did you get insurance quotes? The folks above that did their training in a Mooney were two to foot the bill. Might be really expensive. Some insurance companies might even refuse to cover.

Yves

[Cyril Gibb]

Make sure that whoever is doing the prepurchase knows exactly where to look in a Mooney for airframe corrosion.  I dodged a bullet during a prepurchase that found terminal spar corrosion that was visible only by using a mirror.   I almost bought a large aluminum doorstop.

If you're intent on buying this plane, I'd fly it to Clarence to do a prepurchase.  If it passes, you're halfway home to the east coast which you were going to do anyway.  If it fails, you've saved thousands.

[Kejidog]

1 hour ago, yvesg said:

Kejidog, did you get insurance quotes? The folks above that did their training in a Mooney were two to foot the bill. Might be really expensive. Some insurance companies might even refuse to cover.

Yves

Yves. Yes I joined copa to take advantage of the rates. I don't qualify as a gold level due to being a student. I got a non moving quote for it and with liability and passenger coverage it is $700. Per year. I can qualify for gold when i get my ppl and build hours. I would probably just park the plane till i get more training hours in on the 172 i am flying. Then move into the mooney after i become more competent. I am performing stalls now and have mastered slow flight last week so I am moving on towards my goal hour by hour. I figure if the sale moves along as i hope it will, mid june is a date i may make for delivery which will allow me to have more training hours under my belt. 

I have added 4 more hours to my training time since I first posted this thread. I appreciate all the help and advice.  Medical is done and ground school is going to be completed by end of may. Pstar  test shoud follow shortly. My CFI will probably be doing my ferry home and that will give me lots of hours in the plane to do most of the flying (hopefully) although the hours can't be logged as training from what he's been told on a cross country ferry. I am not sure why. 

You are in Gatineau? I am coming up your way in may for a conference. I would love to buy you a coffee and pick your brain on all things mooney and eastern Canada flying. Send me a PM if you are interested.  I may even try to take a lesson while i am up there if the local schools have anything else besides a 172 to train on. 

 

Thanks

 

Bruce 

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Kejidog
Changed ppl to pstar.

[ArtVandelay]

For a 4 seat tourer at reasonable cost I have always chose a J (201) by the way  same fuel burn as a 152 and goes at 167 knots!  

Andrew. 

I love the J, BUT the fuel consumption on a 152 at 75% is 6.1gph, that same burn rate in a J (6000', 2000rpm) gets 118knots in the 152 would be 105 knots...apples to apples...to get 167 you'll burn 10.5gph.

Just being fair and balanced, I got my PP in the 152.

[MyNameIsNobody]

J owners are NOT getting 167knots unless they are going downhill.  Definitely NOT at 10.5GPH fuel burn.  What a load of baby recycled food.  Why do some feel the need to flat out exaggerate about speed in what is already a fast airplane?

-Modified to be generic vs. "attacking" any one pilot...

Edited June 20, 2016 by MyNameIsNobody
To respect sensitive people

[KSMooniac]

Testwest's J does 165 knots on 10.5 gph...thanks to extreme drag reduction and light weight. Rare performance, though.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk