Ipad mounting requirements and the FAA???

[midlifeflyer]

There is no regulatory requirement for logbooks. It can be a slip of tissue paper. It's aircraft records, which may also be destroyed after one year or the date the work was superseded.

 

Well, I have a feeling the FAA might look askance at aircraft records maintained on tissue paper. I don't know of any aircraft mechanic who would sign one as the standard for his way of doing business. I understand they are a bit difficult to sign.

 

And it would sure be fun to watch the negotiation of an aircraft sale in which the putative buyer asked to see the aircraft logs and (tissue paper aside), the seller informed her he destroyed  all records of "maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alteration and ...100-hour, annual, progressive, and other required or approved inspections" that were more than a year old.

 

Yes, in theory, you can write the records on toilet paper and they are valid. It's also true that you can write a check on a piece of toilet paper and it is also valid. Just try to get a bank to cash it!

[midlifeflyer]

I took my Instrument check ride 4/11/15 in Mckinney, TX. I have the iPad mini ram mounted to my yoke. Works great there by the way. My examiner, who was wonderful, was perfectly fine with this. Although, had I not brought paper backup charts, I got the strong feeling he would not have allowed the ride. Passed too!

Jason

N1137Z

 

In which case he, just like the examiner in the early part of the thread, would be making up his own rules. There is no FAA requirement for a paper backup  or, for that matter, any backup for an EFB, although "It is suggested that a secondary or back up source of aeronautical information necessary for the flight be available to the pilot in the aircraft." 

 

Not to say it's wise to not have any backup that a smart examiner would not be well within his rights to test what would happen if the iPad failed in flight. But paper is definitely not required.

[ryoder]

I fly with most of the time outdated sectionals in the seat pockets an iPad and a Android phone with Garmin pilot.

I buy new sectionals twice a year and give the old ones to my friends to study with.

I want an iPad mounted in the Mooney some day but the radio stack takes all the space.

[NotarPilot]

In which case he, just like the examiner in the early part of the thread, would be making up his own rules. There is no FAA requirement for a paper backup  or, for that matter, any backup for an EFB, although "It is suggested that a secondary or back up source of aeronautical information necessary for the flight be available to the pilot in the aircraft." 

 

Not to say it's wise to not have any backup that a smart examiner would not be well within his rights to test what would happen if the iPad failed in flight. But paper is definitely not required.

Yes and no regarding "making up his own rules." He wouldn't necessarily have to make up any rules. He could allow the check ride to proceed sans paper charts but what would you do if you reach the FAF on an approach and the examiner says, "Your iPad just failed, what are you going to do next?" 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes and no regarding "making up his own rules." He wouldn't necessarily have to make up any rules. He could allow the check ride to proceed sans paper charts but what would you do if you reach the FAF on an approach and the examiner says, "Your iPad just failed, what are you going to do next?" 

Absolutely legitimate question and scenario. In fact, you seem to have re-stated what I said in the post you answered .

 

 

Not to say it's wise to not have any backup that a smart examiner would not be well within his rights to test what would happen if the iPad failed in flight.

But why the ?

There are a number of very good and very simple answers to that one. Some of them apply just as much if the Examiner said "Your (paper) approach plate just fell on the floor. What are you going to do next?" at the same point in the flight.

An instrument pilot who is not thinking of that possibility or thinks that the scenario only applies to EFBs is making a mistake. Not just for the checkride.

Edited October 22, 2015 by midlifeflyer

[Bob - S50]

Yes and no regarding "making up his own rules." He wouldn't necessarily have to make up any rules. He could allow the check ride to proceed sans paper charts but what would you do if you reach the FAF on an approach and the examiner says, "Your iPad just failed, what are you going to do next?" 

Not to worry, I have the same information on my phone right here on the yoke.

[Marauder]

Not to worry, I have the same information on my phone right here on the yoke.

After carrying catalog cases filled with Jepp binders, I appreciate the new sensiblity to managing this information. I fly with an iPad Mini yoke mounted with Garmin Pilot, a second iPad Air with Garmin Pilot, a Samsung smart phone with the updated fltpln app and finally my Aspen MFD has a current chart database.

If an examiner goes beyond the second level of backup, you obviously have slept with his daughter, killed his dog or he just took one look at you and said "this guy will give me the number of rejects I need this year"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[steingar]

I was told anything that was connected to ships power needed field approval, or have an STC. I have an Airgizmo for my Ipad mini and wanted to wire it so it would charge, but my mechanic said it wasnt legal. He said as long as it had it own power source and wasnt wired into ships power it is ok. He said it was ok to use cigarette plug just not to hard wire it in.

Had a 496 connected to ship's power in my old Cherokee.  It went through numerous annuals with 4 different mechanics with no trouble.

[MHemperly]

A good friend of mine is going for his IFR checkride tomorrow here in Texas.  The FAA examiner was talking with him on preparation and Pete asked him if he could use his iPad during the flight.  He said yes, but stated that it could only be held or secured using something like a Sporty's kneeboard holder.  He said that the FAA would not allow it to be affixed to the plane in any form such as a Ram-Mount.  He mentioned that this was big on their "hit list" and if you are approached by an official looking individual on the ramp, that you should remove any such mounting device or face a fine if caught.  

 

I've looked briefly on the web and haven't found such a ruling.  Anyone here heard anything regarding this?

 

Thanks,

Don

this is not true. My IA put an air gizmos mount on my co-pilot side for an iPad mini and he logged it and provided me with the paperwork from the FAA to prove its legality. I'll see if I can dig it up and post it. I've heard some old school examiners... (No offense to anyone) will  try and give you a hard time about the mounting of iPads. 

 

Mike

Edited October 22, 2015 by Mhemperly

[Danb]

A good friend and client is a DPE and he has no problem with The iPad but as mentioned above it is his normal practice to turn off the iPad near the beginning of one of the approaches and ascertain what the pilot ends up doing. If you have a backup your ok also the SOB rides the rudder pedals waiting for you to tell him to get off them, he generally gets paid twice for his tricks by failing you the first time.

[midlifeflyer]

 

Sounds like a bit of a jerk with the rudder pedal truck.  But part of the point of the iPad failure (although I always wonder whether those who do that do it with paper also or are just showing electronics bias) is that, these days, we almost always do have a back-up to handle this situation. The "trick" in real life as well as the checride, is to have the CRM & ADM skills to use them. One great temptation would be to say to the Examiner, "hand me yours"  

Personally, paper or plastic, as an instructor  I'd be very interested in what the pilot does first in this situation.  As a pilot I have two different initial actions depending on the overall situation. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by midlifeflyer

[mike_elliott]

the SOB rides the rudder pedals waiting for you to tell him to get off them, he generally gets paid twice for his tricks by failing you the first time.

Pax on rudder pedals mitigation is not a task to be demonstrated in the Instrument PTS. If he busts someone's checkride for that and makes them pay again, one might think his life as a DE is going to be very short lived. I would not send anyone to him.

[MHemperly]

Here ya go

[ryoder]

 

After carrying catalog cases filled with Jepp binders, I appreciate the new sensiblity to managing this information. I fly with an iPad Mini yoke mounted with Garmin Pilot, a second iPad Air with Garmin Pilot, a Samsung smart phone with the updated fltpln app and finally my Aspen MFD has a current chart database.

 

If an examiner goes beyond the second level of backup, you obviously have slept with his daughter, killed his dog or he just took one look at you and said "this guy will give me the number of rejects I need this year"

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

if his daughter is one of Marauders girls he might be thankful for you sleeping with her.

[Bob - S50]

Here, take a look at this one: AC 120-76C.PDF

In it you'll find that a Class 1 EFB is not mounted to the aircraft, but may be temporarily connected to a power supply for battery charging.  I would take that as connected via a cigarette lighter adapter or USB charging cable.  As for MOUNTED...

Further down it provides the definition of mounted: "j.Mounted. Any portable device that is attached to a permanently installed mounting device."  I would take that to mean that anything being secured by a RAM suction or clamp mount would not be considered to be mounted because it is not permanent.

Further, it also says: "Class 1 EFBs that have Type B applications for aeronautical charts, approach charts, or an electronic checklist (ECL) must be appropriately secured and viewable during critical phases of flight and must not interfere with flight control movement."  So to me it implies you should have it temporarily mounted someplace.  That might be on your leg or a RAM mount.  I could even make an argument that depending on my seating position, a leg mount might not be viewable (blocked by the yoke) or even interfere with control movement.  Not to mention that having to look at your leg during IMC is a vertigo trap.

Just my interpretation.

(I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)

[ryoder]

These advisory circulars are quick and easy for the FAA to publish so why don't they just have a faq at the end.  Net it out for us guys.  It should literally say "This means you cannot install an iPad into an air gizmo dock in a certified airplane.  You can use a suction mount and a cigarette lighter power plug."

[Bob - S50]

These advisory circulars are quick and easy for the FAA to publish so why don't they just have a faq at the end.  Net it out for us guys.  It should literally say "This means you cannot install an iPad into an air gizmo dock in a certified airplane.  You can use a suction mount and a cigarette lighter power plug."

Lawyers.

[bonal]

bureaucratic government lawyers Worst of all