Climate Change

[triple8s]

I was talking (texting) with a used to be Mooney driver who is my hangar roomie and we were discussing the issues involved with a trip north. Its not the leaving your own hangar nor flying to the destination but when you return to the frozen airplane, we are aware of the challenges of getting everything inside the cowl warmed up but what could be the consequenses of starting up the cold gyros and the avionics?

[ArtVandelay]

LCD displays may have a problem, l stands for liquid and at very cold temps they won't work. Anything that uses liquids, including batteries, turn coordinator, etc. I have to look up the freezing temperature of each liquid, but all would be below zero.

[John Pleisse]

I know of many who use a small...very small ceramic heater in the interior before flight....supervised, nowhere near the fuel selector or gascolator. It is important. Gyros grind away IMO. To make my point? Fresh lubed vernier controls and cables start to squeak and stick in this kind of cold. Don't think for a moment lower grade lubes are doing their job on delicate gyros. This one is great. 6"x8" and will almost heat your whole hangar.

 

 

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/portable-electric/llr33556-space-heater-thermostat-2-settings-1-fan-setting-ceramic-light-gray?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CLvz8LTs8MMCFeJr7Aod3isAFQ

 

 

(BTW, nice hook on the thread name....I was chewing on raw meat.....looking to argue) .

[alex]

 

 

(BTW, nice hook on the thread name....I was chewing on raw meat.....looking to argue) .

 

Geez, no kidding, I did a double take on that...

[carusoam]

John,

The humor worked...

But, the link didn't.

I get to the Global Industrial site, but not the product for some reason.

Best regards,

-a-

[larryb]

I'd like to hear more about the need to pre-heat gyros. I pre-heat the engine but not the interior of the plane. I don't operate in super-cold areas, so far nothing colder than 25 deg F. Like the engine, it seems that you'd need to be heating the interior for a couple hours for the heat to get to the internals of the instruments.

 

Larry

[AndyFromCB]

I have on of these heaters, screwed to a nice piece of steel just big enough to fit in thru the baggage door. This way it cannot tip and carpet fibers cannot get inside the heater element. I leave it plugged in for a couple of hours before departure, supervised by hangar mice…Makes all the difference in the world...

[bonal]

^{My first thought was ARE YOU NUTS!    back on topic I would think as the others have said extreme cold is bad for the stuff behind the panel as well as in the cowel. usin a small space heater (supervised) sounds like a good idea.}

[yvesg]

From my past experience, there is not much to worry about unless the OAT is below -25 C. I recall one flight when it was -30C. Some dials were erratic the first few minutes but settled quickly. I did not have a GPS then. If you don't have steam gages like I do, check the manufacturer specs, they will provide operating temperatures.

Yves (Now at -15 C)

[Marauder]

The gyros are at the greatest risk of extreme cold. My Aspens have a cold spec of -20°C operating temp.

http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/evolution-1000

[Danb]

Like Chris gyros are at risk I HAVE A HEATED HANGER (EXPENSIVE TO KEEP AT 45 DEGREES EVEN) but a couple guys on the field in there unheated hangers have a couple lightbulbs on all the time..does not seem to me like that would work but they say the condensation is less etc???

[Bob_Belville]

I think I might get something like this ($50 @ Zoro.com with free freight) to keep my battery warm. 

 

http://www.broan.com/products/product/431c321a-26a6-4831-ae7a-fe32d0374760

 

I already have a small ceramic heater keeping the engine warm.

[Danb]

THAT LOOKS NICE BOB I WONDER HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO WARM UP YOUR INTERIOR AND ALL YOUR AVIONICS?

[Bob_Belville]

This time of year I would leave it on a very low setting using the thermostat. (I now leave the engine heater on at about a 25% setting which keeps OT, CHTs, EGTs in the 50s on the coldest days, warmer than that most of the time. I use AeroShell 100 year round.) 

[DrBill]

I have 3 100watt light bulbs wired together and a timer.   I have 2 in pigtails and one in a ceramic ceiling fixture.. The two in pigtails go under the oil pan. Just hang in there around the gear supports.  The ceramic one sits on the hump under the dash. Timer comes on at midnite and off at noon.  I plug it in the day before and set the clock. If I fly the next morning all is well if not it shuts off at noon. Makes about a 40 degree difference at the top of the engine and my lcd displays are not segmented like they are sometimes without.

BILL

[laytonl]

I have 3 100watt light bulbs wired together and a timer.   I have 2 in pigtails and one in a ceramic ceiling fixture.. The two in pigtails go under the oil pan. Just hang in there around the gear supports.  The ceramic one sits on the hump under the dash. Timer comes on at midnite and off at noon.  I plug it in the day before and set the clock. If I fly the next morning all is well if not it shuts off at noon. Makes about a 40 degree difference at the top of the engine and my lcd displays are not segmented like they are sometimes without.

BILL

To get his thread off topic, where did you find three 100w bulbs? I thought the climate change police had outlawed them. Lee

[Bob_Belville]

To get his thread off topic, where did you find three 100w bulbs? I thought the climate change police had outlawed them. Lee

As manager of an electrical utility I thought you were a member of the police?

[N201MKTurbo]

I've been doing Mooney abuse for 30 years. Never had a problem with gyros.

[aaronk25]

My mooney cabin is always 75-80f 24/7 in the -25f winters ...not because of the gyros, but trying to keep the the cabin heat soaked so I don't freeze my ass off. Even with heat soaking it by the time I get it out of the hanger it's down to 30-40 degrees. Better than -25.

[Johnnybgoode]

I think I might get something like this ($50 @ Zoro.com with free freight) to keep my battery warm.

http://www.broan.com/products/product/431c321a-26a6-4831-ae7a-fe32d0374760

I already have a small ceramic heater keeping the engine warm.

I have that same heater with a bit of dryer duct attached to direct flow up into the bottom of my cowling - granted this is in SC and not the arctic north - but a half hour on at around 30 OAT before flying leaves my engine compartment nice and warm for the start.

I've considered adding additional tubing from the cowl inlets back to the heater intake to increase efficiency but have not done so yet - it gets used only 3-4 times per year...

Patrick

[Browncbr1]

The previous owner of my F was in Minnesota and he used a space heater with some HVAC ducts with Aluminum tape on the intake and exhaust of the heater, so it was impossible for anything to get close enough to get too hot. He said up there, gyros will go bad if he didn't do this. There was a thermostat on it and he would turn it on well in advance. He was comfortable leaving it on without being there with it. He let it run for about 6 hours before flying, but I don't think he had the temp set very high. It was nice getting into a warm cabin too.

[Bob_Belville]

Be careful. I had this set up for a while but removed the duct into the cabin when I discovered I was getting moisture under the carpet due to condensation on the colder metal floor.

[Browncbr1]

The setup that I was talking about actually had the electric heater inside the cabin. Just about 6" of 8" HVAC pipe was taped to the front and back of the heater so the heater couldn't get too close to anything. Good point about condensation. I would be cautious to use such a system with anything other than low humidity. Thanks for making that great point!