M20Kid Posted November 11, 2014 Report Posted November 11, 2014 I'm having my 231 painted and the new colors are going to look great! The issue is that the blue fuel stains don't look good with the other colors I've chosen ... sigh. The fuel stains didn't show up until the paint was stripped off, and then just light stains around the rivet heads along the back of the left fuel tank; right in front of the gear well. The paint shop was happy to put some sealant around the rivet heads, which appears to have stopped the fuel stains there, but now there's staining at the back to the seam behind the rivet heads ... AAAARGH! Does this mean I need the tanks resealed or is my issue more simple? Has anyone seen this before and found a reasonable solution? Thanks in advance!
KSMooniac Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 I would hazard a guess it might time for a reseal. Any idea how old the current sealant is? Original? Unfortunately the best time to reseal is *before* new paint...
Hank Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 Putting sealant on the outside will just make the leak run somewhere else. It must be stopped from inside the tank. The best places to go are Ft. Lauderdale; (I forget), Minnesota; Troutdale, OR; Longview, TX; and Flora, IL. This is three different processes with different pricing structures, from speedy to downright high. Larger tanks, of course, cost more. I researched my options and went to Florida four years ago, mostly due to airline cost and convenience, but he also gives MAPA discounts. Paid for a decade or so of membership . . . Some places can find and fix small leaks. Multiple or large leaks, or degraded, sandy sealant like I had requires the whole shebang. Good luck! Wet Wingologists also seemed less risk to the paint, and there was no damage to mine, although I now need to repair a dime-sized spot of wing walk.
M20Kid Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Posted November 12, 2014 Scott, I think the seals are original. And there was no sign of trouble until the old paint was stripped away; apparently it was making a good enough seal to keep any problem out of sight. Hank, your right, the gas just went someplace else and found a new exit. At least I'm using a local paint shop so the touch up should be easy enough if my airplane does need major surgery. Assuming a complete reseal is required, how much dis-assembly is required? There are access covers, of course, but I assume they have to redo all the rivets, too.
Hank Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 No disassembly is required for a reseal. Paint damage can happen if the shop pumps chemical strippers in through the fuel cap opening, drains it out the sump locations and recirculates it back to the top again. With the drains removed, some of the stripper inevitably leaks, to the detriment of the surrounding paint. Oops, seems the top access panels are often removed. Mine were put back with new stainless screws, and the wing walk was redone, since it covers much of the access plate. Not sure if any of the other panels are removed or. to, nor even where they are. I like mine, no more drops or spots . . . Save your pennies, it starts north of 6 AMU for 52 gallon tanks; one shop uses a polyurethane sealer for 10.
Marauder Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 Scott, I think the seals are original. And there was no sign of trouble until the old paint was stripped away; apparently it was making a good enough seal to keep any problem out of sight. Hank, your right, the gas just went someplace else and found a new exit. At least I'm using a local paint shop so the touch up should be easy enough if my airplane does need major surgery. Assuming a complete reseal is required, how much dis-assembly is required? There are access covers, of course, but I assume they have to redo all the rivets, too. Or you could go to the dark side with the rest of us bladder guys... 1
N601RX Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 Over aggressive stripping can also cause leaks. There was several cases of this reported on Mooneyspace a couple of years ago. The reports were from a shop in California. 1
N201MKTurbo Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 If you are going to get your tanks resealed, do it before they paint the plane. The tank stripper can damage your paint. Take that nasty looking stripped aluminum beast to the tank shop and make sure it is leak free before you paint the plane. Even if the stripper doesn't hurt the paint 12 wing panels need to come off and the screw heads and seams will be messed up. 1
PTK Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 No need to rush and go about this half ass backwards! Tank reseal and paint are big ticket items and need to be done in proper order. A good paint shop will check for leaks and advise you to address them before paint. Do yourself a favor and reseal the tanks before painting the airplane!
M20Kid Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Posted November 12, 2014 All the advice to deal with the tanks before paint is sound, it's just a bit too late for me to heed; the paint shop has already started. The staining is light and they thought the seal of the new paint might keep everything inside - they were wrong, but it's too late to stop that process. They are a local shop, however, and if the paint is damaged during subsequent work they will be able to match without problems. The next questions are cost and time. My airplane has been grounded for two months with the paint process, partly because the ailerons and elevators were sent off for new skins and that process has not been without drama. If the tanks need to be done, how long will that keep me on the ground? Also, there is no actual gas dripping from the airplane; just staining. Do I have a few months or does this need immediate attention? The annual is due in January and I have had Don Maxwell do that each year. Someone mentioned there's a shop in Longview, TX that can do this work. Any advice?
KSMooniac Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 I don't think Don does full reseals anymore... it is terrible work and he couldn't keep anyone around to do it if I recall correctly. I don't blame them. Paul Beck in Willmar is the master. I believe the shop in Troutdale uses his process/technique as well, and might be the closest to you. I believe it takes 2-3 weeks start to finish. If you're going to finish the paint job without a reseal, then I'd wait until your annual and let Don give you his opinion. 30 year old sealant is on borrowed time in my opinion. You might find the weeps turn to leaks in the colder weather like I did, but your location won't get that cold either. If your plane is a long-term keeper, I'd plan to bite the bullet and get it done right, cry once, and enjoy a leak-free plane for the rest of the time you own her. I went to Willmar in 2008 and don't regret it one bit. Good thing your paint shop is local... they should be able to touch-up the access panels after they're disturbed during the reseal. There is no other dis assembly aside from the interior panels to check the inboard side of the tanks.
231LV Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 I had Darcy at Willmar reseal my 1980 tanks about 6-7 years ago...If I recall, the price was right around 10 AMU's. The sealant is excellent and have not had any problems since but they did have to repaint the inboard side of each wing due to stripper getting away from them and stripping the paint...prior to the strip/reseal, I was experiencing worse and worse staining and when I had a lousy landing one day, the whole seam of one side seemed to open up...decision made! 1
fantom Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 Have that paint shop get you bird in flyable order and get it to Maxwell for an inspection now. He'll tell you if a patch is all that's needed, but from what you've said I suspect a full reseal is required. Your local paint shop has, once again, just like the aforementioned California job, learned an expensive Mooney wet wing painting lesson... When a paint shop uses chemical stripper directly on wing covers and seams, they must be masked with aluminum foil tape, or something similar beforehand, otherwise the stripper seeps in and does its evil magic on the inside of the tanks. Patch or reseal first...finish the paint later. Good luck. 1
N201MKTurbo Posted November 12, 2014 Report Posted November 12, 2014 I know from experience that there is a place in the wheel wells that will fail if it is hit with a high pressure sprayer. It will cause the leaks you mentioned. If that is the case it can be fixed by resealing that corner.
M20Kid Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Posted November 13, 2014 I think it's more than a corner. The entire row of rivets in front of the left gear well were all weeping. After the paint shop applied some sealer to those rivets, the blue stains appeared in at the seam behind them, essentially the opening to the gear well. More than a corner, I think. I see you're in Tempe. Where do you keep your plane? I'm out at FFZ.
M20Kid Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Posted January 8, 2015 As Paul Harvey used to say - and now for the rest of the story. I took pictures of the inside of the fuel tanks and sent them to a couple of shops for analysis. Some shops thought they could patch the leak but wouldn't provide any guarantee of success. Paul at Weep No More didn't think the problem was patchable nor did he think it was caused by the paint shop considering the fact that he could see where my tanks had already been patch before. I decided to just get the whole thing done right and took it to MN to let him do the entire job. Because it was winter and some of his scheduled clients were snowed in, Paul was able to get me in with just a few week's notice. After Paul got my plane, he sent pictures of patches and cracks that couldn't have anything to do with the paint shop; it was just a matter of timing. Paul kept me updated on progress and I was able to get my airplane on the day after Christmas, as originally planned. I am very happy with the work he did and I'm sure I'll have a leak-free plane for years to come. The new paint looks great without the 'extra' blue lines! 1
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