Oscar Avalle Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Incredible what happen in the Ukraine. A civil airplane shot down... It is also tragic that it is another Malaysia Airlines plane... My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Oscar http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17?hpt=hp_t1 Quote
201er Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 It's not the first passenger plane the Russians have shot down. Quote
Marauder Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 It's not the first passenger plane the Russians have shot down. And were not immune either... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Quote
chrisk Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 And were not immune either... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Is this a reference to TWA 800 and the exploding fuel tank? Or the Iranian jet downed in the late 80s Quote
chrisk Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Its not the first time for the Ukrainians either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 Quote
Piloto Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 I am surprised how quickly they concluded that it was shot down without examining the wreck first. What is Russia to gain by shooting down a civilian aircraft? All B777 carry Mode S transponders that clearly identifies it as Malaysian plane. It looks to me that this was an internal explosion either by hazardous material cargo or an onboard bomb. The Ukrainian government is claiming it was a Russian missile to bring more animosity toward Russia. Only close examination of the wreckage will tell the truth. In a sudden event like this the black boxes wouldn't tell you much because the remote sensors are destroyed in the mid air explosion. There is also the possibility of a mid air collision with a military aircraft or a UAV in the area. Or a wacko Malaysian Airlines employee that sabotaged two planes. We have some of those here in the US. José Quote
fantom Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 ....What is Russia to gain by shooting down a civilian aircraft? There is also the possibility of a mid air collision..... José The mid air collision was with a missile fired by a Russian Buk launcher. Some poorly trained soldier screwed up big time, separatist or Russian. Quote
chrisk Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Both Russia and Ukraine have the Buk Missile system, and probably some splinter groups too. It's probably a little early to know with certainty which group launched. And I have to agree with Jose, I don't see where Russia has anything to gain. So, I'll go out on a limb and suggest it wasn't Russia (unless some one screwed up in a big way.) As for a transponder's ID being used as a method to identify a friendly aircraft. It only works if you can trust the guy who programmed the transponder...... and you enemy would never cheat this way! Quote
jetdriven Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Its not the first time for the Ukrainians either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 or the United States...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 Quote
Marauder Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Is this a reference to TWA 800 and the exploding fuel tank? Or the Iranian jet downed in the late 80s The Iranian passenger jet. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
N33GG Posted July 17, 2014 Report Posted July 17, 2014 Clearly they were carrying lithium batteries. Quote
Piloto Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Maybe a runaway missile from Gaza? That's next on the news. Quote
aviatoreb Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Jose' - aren't you the guy who was all conspiracy theories for the last lost Malaysian airliner? Now you are Mr moderation and wait and see. Well, I will take up the conspiracy theory then. Everyone says the Russians didn't do it because they have nothing to gain. I am not so sure. Mr Putan could have sent a fake separatist militia contingent of Russian special ops soldiers into Ukraine with the equipment to bring down an airliner and orders to do so. Why? So that he could then say that the situation in the entirety of the Ukraine is out of hand and to therefore as pretense to make a fake excuse to invade the rest of the Ukraine with a large contingent of his armies. Didn't he use fake separatists to rabble-rouse as part of his excuse to invade Cremia? Seemed to work there since no one in the West did anything but complain. So my money is on Putan did it. As opening volley of an invasion. Quote
Piloto Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Mooney aircraft should take advantage of this for marketing: "Don't risk your life on a B777 get a Mooney. Your money back if you get hit by a missile or hijacked". Woow!!! that will sell big in Malaysia. José Quote
carusoam Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Ospreys are flying around Manhattan... Increased security on the Hudson. Best regards, -a- Quote
fantom Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 The forces of darkness are winning I fear. Quote
PTK Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 As I see it the responsibility for this tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of the Ukrainian government. They are reckless and irresponsible to allow civilian flights over a war zone with such callous disregard for innocent human life! Is there a good reason the government in Kiev has not declared their airspace a Prohibited Area? Did any of these finger pointers who suddenly popped out of the woodwork have the presence of mind to do so before this tragedy occurred? They need to do it now before another such tragedy occurs. Quote
Guest Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 According to news reports I've seen yesterday, Air Canada and many American air carriers were already avoiding over flights of the area. It's the airlines fault for choosing the route, they are free to file a different route, no one else's. Clarence Quote
Hank Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Airspace doesn't need to be Prohibited for a sensible person to know that it's risky and avoid it. Is it Ukraine's fault that some airlines are worried more about fuel cost than safety? After all, they have insurance in the event of a problem; but did they read the normal exclusions that have always included acts of war and now also include acts of terrorism? Fuel costs have no insurance, and I'm afraid this shoot down will also not be covered. Quote
Piloto Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 I hear on the news about these missile detectors for fighter planes. I have some questions for a fighter pilot on this forum. 1. How the hell you know if your missile detector is working? I do not think the Russians use the same radar frequencies for the missiles they sell on the market. And I don't think missile radar specs. are published. 2. How the detector differentiates a missile radar burst from a burst on the ground? A burst from the ground can force the pilot to eject thus achieving the same objective as a real missile of knocking down the plane. José Quote
carusoam Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Are we mixing in TFRs??? That would be a good use for a TFR. - Disney World - Giant Stadium on Super Bowl Sunday - Ukraine Who at Maylasia decides the actual route? - pilot - accountant - plane purchasing agent Tragic results, -a- Quote
AndyFromCB Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 As I see it the responsibility for this tragedy rests squarely on the shoulders of the Ukrainian government. They are reckless and irresponsible to allow civilian flights over a war zone with such callous disregard for innocent human life! Is there a good reason the government in Kiev has not declared their airspace a Prohibited Area? Did any of these finger pointers who suddenly popped out of the woodwork have the presence of mind to do so before this tragedy occurred? They need to do it now before another such tragedy occurs. Well, I think we can point some fingers at the Ruskies too. It's not like one can just go to Walmart and pick up a ground to air missile. They have been supplying heavy weaponry to a bunch of jackasses. One can only hope it backfires on them eventually... Quote
PTK Posted July 18, 2014 Report Posted July 18, 2014 Airspace doesn't need to be Prohibited for a sensible person to know that it's risky and avoid it. Is it Ukraine's fault that some airlines are worried more about fuel cost than safety? After all, they have insurance in the event of a problem; but did they read the normal exclusions that have always included acts of war and now also include acts of terrorism? Fuel costs have no insurance, and I'm afraid this shoot down will also not be covered.Does a "sensible" government know their country, whatever they got left, is a war zone? If "yes" then they need to take "sensible" precautions, such as no fly zone and prohibited airspace, to protect civilians. If "no" the results are exactly what happened. Yes, it is the Ukrainian government to blame on this one. No one else. It doesn't matter what we or the Europeans or Russia is doing. The immediate responsibility for protecting civilian flights and the blame when this happens, rests in Kiev. Quote
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