Bob - S50 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 This question is for pilots who are pure GA. All military pilots and I suspect all commercial pilots know what 'guard' is. My question is: for those pilots who have never flown military or commercial, if someone (the guard police) told you that you were 'on guard' would you know what that meant? Just curious. Bob Quote
Hank Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 It would mean either press the flip-flop, or turn the switch to Com 1. Or else I was having a really bad day and was on Guard on purpose, you idiot! (Maybe he missed the Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! at the beginning of what I said?) P.S.--purely flying for me, never been paid/repaid one red cent since Lesson #1. But I do read a lot. Quote
Cruiser Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 "The aircraft emergency frequency (also known as guard) is a frequency used on the aircraft band reserved for emergency communications for aircraft in distress. The frequencies are 121.5 MHz for civilian, also known as International Air Distress (IAD) or VHF Guard, and 243.0 MHz for military use, also known as Military Air Distress (MAD) or UHF Guard. EarlierEmergency Locator Transmitters used the guard frequencies to transmit, but an additional frequency of 406 MHz is used by more modern ELTs".----- Wikipedia Quote
aaronk25 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Every once in a while monitoring it pays off for a good laugh when a crew member driving heavy iron accidentally makes a whole "sit back and relax and enjoy the ride" speech "from the flight deck"...... I don't participate In the ridiculing that follows, because it could block a true emergency but it sure is funny listening to the other pilots poke fun at them..... On ifr flight I monitor it religiously as if a radio call is missed (regardless of whether ATC, equipment or pilot is to blame) the pilot could end up with a pilot deviation.....so it's nice they can call you up on 121.5 to get the right frequency. 1 Quote
mulro767 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 I agree with Jim, I always have it on my #2. You'd be surprised how often ATC uses it to find airplanes on the wrong freq. And if I lived anywhere near a TFR I'd monitor it. ATC will start barking on it as soon as you point your nose at a TFR. Also, if there were a fellow GA pilot in trouble and their ELT was activated, it very well could be you that hears it first. Monitor it if you can. Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 The requirement to monitor "guard" is contained in an FDC NOTAM from back in 2004 and is in effect until further notice... https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat...nd%204-0811.pdf ...ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0... It's pretty definite - if you've got the capability you need to maintain a "listening watch" (monitor) 121.5. Period. Now if you don't have a radio, you don't have the capability. If you've only got one radio you will need to use it for other things, but when you're not using it to talk to ATC or Unicom or whatever else you've got the capability. If you've got dual comm radios you've got the capability to monitor 121.5 most of the time. You'll notice that VFR or IFR isn't even mentioned - it applies to everyone. Practically speaking, I only monitor "Guard" once I've leveled off in cruise. Things are usually too busy for us during climb and descent or while we're in the terminal area. It's very common to hear ATC attempt to contact aircraft on Guard. In many ways it really simplifies reestablishing contact with ATC when you find that it's been too quiet for too long. Quote
Hank Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Ward, that's a "recommendation" not a "requirement." I often use Com 2 to monitor weather ahead of me [ATIS, AWOS, etc.] when it's a little iffy. Quote
Danb Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Bob..great thread...it reminds some of us to do due diligence Dan Quote
Bob - S50 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Posted June 17, 2014 Bob..great thread...it reminds some of us to do due diligence Dan Dan, The reason I asked is that I often hear someone making traffic pattern calls on 121.5, someone tells them they are broadcasting on 'guard' but they keep making the calls on the frequency anyway. I wondered if they knew what 'guard' was. Telling them they are on the 'emergency frequency' might be more effective. Then again, I'm not a member of the 'guard police'. There are those who have and those who will. I do enjoy listening to someone welcoming their passengers on center frequency though. Just heard that the other day on the way from SEA to MSP. Amazing constraint that time. No "That was beautiful man, now try telling your passengers; best PA I ever heard; etc" chorus. I too monitor 121.5 on #2 comm. I'm lucky enough to have a GTN650 for #1 so I use the monitor function of that radio to listen to the weather and can keep #2 fixed on 121.5. Bob Quote
NotarPilot Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 I usually use my second comm radio for two things, picking up ATIS and monitoring Guard. That's it. Period. Keeps it simple. When I'm not listening to ATIS I'm monitoring Guard. Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 I monitor 121.5 while enroute. There's a surprising amount of chatter 'on guard.' Even more surprising to me is how much of it is ATC calling IFR aircraft (both airline and GA) who have missed a frequency change and "gone missing." 1 Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Ward, that's a "recommendation" not a "requirement." I often use Com 2 to monitor weather ahead of me [ATIS, AWOS, etc.] when it's a little iffy. What part of "ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0" is a recommendation? It sure reads like a requirement to me. Why then is it standard procedure on airline, military and corporate flight decks? Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 I monitor 121.5 while enroute. There's a surprising amount of chatter 'on guard.' Even more surprising to me is how much of it is ATC calling IFR aircraft (both airline and GA) who have missed a frequency change and "gone missing." You ought to listen to it up in the flight levels. It gets so busy that sometimes I'm forced to stop monitoring it. It will overwhelm what's going on on the ATC frequency. It didn't use to be that way - before the notam the only time you were even on it was when ATC called you and asked you to listen for an ELT. It was a desert. Quote
larryb Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 To answer the original question, I am pure GA and I do know what Guard is. 1 Quote
John Pleisse Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 In the DC SFRA, monitoring guard is required, so it is a way of life here. Yes and I do enjoy listening to tripped ELT's. Quote
mulro767 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Here's some lingo that I didn't know for awhile. After transmitting on an ATC frequency a buddy of yours recognizes your voice and wants to chat. He says "Hey Dan, go to fingers!". He means set your #2 to 123.45. Five fingers. Air to air. 1 Quote
Hank Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 123.45 is no longer the air-to-air frequency. It's now 122.75, I think . . . Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 123.45 is no longer the air-to-air frequency. It's now 122.75, I think . . . No, 123.45 is still the international and oceanic air-to-air frequency and one of the "unofficial", but widely used domestic US air-to-air frequencies. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/6050.32B%20Chg%201.pdf Quote
Rhumbline Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 Why then is it standard procedure on airline, military and corporate flight decks? Perhaps I'm displaying some ignorance but I'm not familiar with "on guard". On occasion ATC would ask us to monitor 121.5 for an ELT but that's about it. We were required to monitor AIRINC or another company frequency at the carriers I worked for. The last company I worked for was in the process of equipping the fleet with ACARS but, as I recall, the requirement to monitor AIRINC remained. Quote
mike28w Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 I heard an ELT ( maybe 5 seconds long) go off and initially just figured that someone in the neighborhood had just landed hard..... till the nearby Air force base transmitted in the blind to "anyone who had heard a recent ELT". Turned out to be a C130....everyone on board died..................... Kinda hard for me to monitor 121.5 anymore. mike Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Perhaps I'm displaying some ignorance but I'm not familiar with "on guard". On occasion ATC would ask us to monitor 121.5 for an ELT but that's about it. We were required to monitor AIRINC or another company frequency at the carriers I worked for. The last company I worked for was in the process of equipping the fleet with ACARS but, as I recall, the requirement to monitor AIRINC remained. The requirement to monitor guard is a holdover from the 9/11 national disaster. It was originally implemented, if I recall correctly, back in 2004 and is effective until further notice. It's probably worth reading the entire NOTAM... https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ifim/us_restrictions/fdc_notams/pdf/FDC%20NOTAMS%204-4386%20and%204-0811.pdf It's not about listening for ELTs, it's about communications redundancy - theirs, not ours. When you read the entire NOTAM, it covers things like flares, knowing the official intercept procedures and the possibility of the use of force for non-compliance. The guys with the machine guns in the Blackhawks and F-16s know all about this NOTAM. I also suggest you keep a copy of the official intercept procedures in your flight bag. You never know when you might accidentally bust a TFR on a cross country flight. Knowing how to properly respond might be something worth knowing. Quote
Mooneymite Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 The airline that I used to work for had in its ops-specs that "company freq" be monitored in lieu of 121.5. Our #2 radio was tuned to the airline (Airinc) network and the company could selcal us when ATC was looking for us. Later, when all the planes were equipped with ACARS (on a third VHF) with provision for selcal, we could tune the #2 radio to whatever we wanted. Some crews tuned 121.5, some 123.45, some never monitored #2 at all. Completely legal. Interestingly, there are some harmonics of 121.5 that will pop up on guard under certain atmospherics. The hapless pilot gets a ration about transmitting on guard when, in fact, he's not on 121.5 at all! Anyway, that's MY excuse! Quote
WardHolbrook Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 The airline that I used to work for had in its ops-specs that "company freq" be monitored in lieu of 121.5. Our #2 radio was tuned to the airline (Airinc) network and the company could selcal us when ATC was looking for us. Later, when all the planes were equipped with ACARS (on a third VHF) with provision for selcal, we could tune the #2 radio to whatever we wanted. Some crews tuned 121.5, some 123.45, some never monitored #2 at all. Completely legal. Interestingly, there are some harmonics of 121.5 that will pop up on guard under certain atmospherics. The hapless pilot gets a ration about transmitting on guard when, in fact, he's not on 121.5 at all! Anyway, that's MY excuse! I don't think that applies today. You'll hear ATC trying to contact pretty much all of the aircarriers on guard from time to time. Only occasionally do you hear them asking company to try and contact the errant flight "on company". I could be wrong. Quote
Mooneymite Posted June 18, 2014 Report Posted June 18, 2014 Most crews do monitor 121.5. I was just pointing out that legally, the ommercial carriers are bound by their ops specs which may make other provisions than monitoring 121.5. Legally, my former carrier has no requirement as long as company selcal works. When that NWA crew over-flew MSP, I could never figure out how they managed to ignore selcal! Quote
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