PPI check list

[Guest]

In an effort to hopefully bring something positive out of the situation with Dave's airplane, I though that we as a group could come up with a PPI check list for use by new owners and buyers of Mooney aircraft.

There are a number of maintainers present here, surely between all of us we can do this. I have one in my shop which I use in conjunction with the Mooney 100 hour list, which I'd be willing to post. I

In the other thread there is debate over what should be involved, how long it should take etc. Regardless of how much effort is involved or needed, I think he goal should be preventing someone from buying an un airworthy and unsafe airplane.

Who's interested in helping with this?

Clarence

[DaV8or]

Great idea. Below is one that is copied off of LASAR's website. I guess it's the list they use when hired to do a PPI. Maybe a starting point. However, having been a buyer before, some of this stuff really needs photos to accompany the descriptions to make sense to a noobie. If people have photos of messed up stuff, it would be great to include them in this project.

 

 

MOONEY PRE-SALE CONDITION EVALUATION

Mooney Registration #__________ Year______Model_______ Date of Inspection _____________

X = OK , O= Needs Attention

 GENERAL APPEARANCE

 Exterior, look for, dents. New, misaligned or non OEM rivets, high rivets, loose rivets

 New skins, or “non OEM" quality repairs from residual damage or evidence of damage history

 Glass clarity: smokey, crazed, or cracked & "stop drilled'

 Exterior corrosion (primarily @ lap joints), or flap hinges

 FUEL TANKS

 Tanks, Leaking or Seeping @ rivets or screws 

 Gas smell in cockpit? Or staining along Main spar or wing interior ?

 Tank leaks in gear well top at inspection panels and inside look @ sealant

 Fuel caps lock cam wear and O rings not cracked

 Fuel drains proper or leaking. Removable type?________

 CABIN

 Cabin door handle security & engagement

 Check seats for condition of foam and backs for structural failure

 Cams for distorsion or wear and ease of operation

 Seat tracks for condition and dirt or corrosion & stops

 Gear Handle (Johnson Bar) for boots & down latch for wear

 Labels and required Placards and Switches and CBs identified

 Magnetic Compass for fluid and correction card

 Soundproofing or SB M20-208B compliance

 Condition of Plastic and interior upholstery (Fire certification for new upholstery)

 PMA Tags on Seat Belts

 Shoulder Harness properly configured

 FLIGHT CHECK

 Check ground control and runup-mags, idle & prop

 Fuel selector and fuel drain for markings and ease of operation

 Check RPM and Tach for accuracy & range markings

 Check rigging (A/P on and off)

 Check all controls and gauges

 Check Avionics and VOR accuracy

 Check flaps up speed (12 sec.)

 Engine smoothness or vibration

 Gear warning horn operration

 GEAR / AIRFRAME

 Gear shock absorbers at limits, cracked or "old style" obsolete Date? ________

 Nose Truss, Dents from over-steering or excessive play (unloaded) Steering Horn Play ?____

 Check Exterior lights and interior lighting: Panel, enunciators, avionics and Cabin lighting

 Check brake discs and pads for wear or corrosion or cupping

 Tire Wear & sidewall aging

 Check for corrosion in tail section, main and stub spar cap, gear wells, and battery compartment

 Leaking Windows, etc.

 Flight Control Balance records (required after repaint)

 Log Book Entries if plane repainted

 ENGINE COMPARTMENT

 Muffler System for cracks or flame tubes and/or Turbo Cracked

 Exhaust system/ Intake/ Intact & properly clamped

 Engine mount secure, cracks, beef up mod (M20-175 &192) , surface condition & paint

 Check Cylinder Fins for cracks @ Exhaust Port

 Lord mounts compressed, cracked or installed correctly

 Run Engine. Check for smoothness, balance, and engine noise

 Engine leaking oil: case, cylinders, hoses, push rods etc.

 Compression check all cylinders while hot. Check Plugs for oil & wear, Insp. Cyls

 Remove and open oil filter, inspect oil and filter/screen for metal (alum/steel)

 Inspect Oil Cooler damage, leaks, cracks, & operation (warm)

 Probes, tranducers & wiring

 PAPER WORK / DOCUMENTS

 Log books (all –none missing), POH ( current revision) , aircraft “ARROW” documents intact ?

 Equipment list and Weight and Balance current

 Logbook inspection only ( any record of damage history?)

 Last Annual ____________________ SMOH__________________ and Major O/H records ____________________________________

 ELT battery date _____________ Due:__________________ Type: _______________________________________________________

 O2 Hydro date ________________ Due:__________________ Steel___  Aluminum___ Composite ___

 AD list: ADs and reoccurring and important SBs ______________________________________________________________________

 Total Times for Engine________________ Propeller:________________________________, Aircraft __________________________

 Propeller times since service: ___________ Notes:  __________________________________________________________________

 IFR Certification Date ______________ Due:______________

 Records of Modifications & Repair 337’s complete?_________________________________________________________________________

 Misc Notes & Discrepancies _______________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Disclaimer: We assume no liability for ultimate condition of this aircraft based on this "Pre-buy Evaluation". This evaluation is not equivalent to an annual inspection which takes 24-32 hours on most Mooneys according to the Factory. This evaluation, usually 19 man hours, utilizing 7 hours of time for flight check and paper work inspection, and 6 hours of mechanical inspection, with 6 hours for the opening and closing of panels investigating common areas where problems can occur. Normally we are listing discrepancies requiring maintenance. This is not really an appraisal either, as we are not listing positive qualities of this aircraft. Damage history may not be noted or detected unless poor repairs are obvious. Usually our inspectors are not aware if the airplane is being represented as "no damage history". Special attention to the history and other matters may be requested at the time of evaluation, but may not necessarily be included in the estimated 19 hours.

[carusoam]

Who does it is important. Independent of the owner and it's previous mechanics. Experience with and knowledge of Mooneys is key. Don't allow emotions to be part of a machinery deal (this is a challenge).

What the value of the plane is compared to the owner's wallet is important. A month's salary? A year's salary? Cost of your car? Cost of your first house? Cost of your current house, car and yacht?

My first plane (Cherokee), failed PPI, While sitting on the ramp. Never took ownership.

Result: Law suit in small claims to recover $2k down payment.

The mechanic saw wavy sheet metal and informed me that was not normal...(this was when I realized that I am not gifted)

Upon further inspection(looking under the wing), popped rivets and body filler were pretty obvious as well.

My one flight with the owner. He landed so hard, he stuck the landing! (Normal for him!, but not normal for any plane)

Second plane (65 M20C $30k), PPI completed by nearby A&P for $500. I was there personally, taking pictures but would not have been able to recognize the severity of inter-granular oxidation unless somebody knowledgable pointed it out. Yes it had some, but was it severe? THE spar, is also THE back seat. I have plenty of seats on my patio showing white dust. I use them safely...(bad analogy!)

Third plane (94 M20R $mega), PPI by THE expert D-Max for $2k?. When the risk you take is as large as what a house costs, mitigate your risk by going to the professionals. They will cost more money. Unfortunately, it is still not risk free, or guaranteed....

It's just the best method of minimizing your chance of getting into a disastrous financial situation. Knowing the owner in combination with the PPI is a significant benefit.

So you know...

Before retirement, I bought and sold commercial machinery in the price range of our Mooneys. The PPI and purchase agreements would follow the same logic. Having an expert mechanic that knows the machine is the best tool for the job! The market sets the price, the mechanic sets (assesses) the value...

Best regards,

-a-

[tomn]

I'd be happy to help with pictures etc. I am going to check my rear spar tomorrow after reading about all this. I'll take some pictures and will have them available. I think this could be a very valuable document for many people. It could easily be something that expands over time to become a very detailed and complete documentation of our planes. I think pictures are a must to help folks visualize what things should or should not look like. Does someone want to become the champion of this? (I'll help all I can but am way too busy these days).

Tom

[Sabremech]

Since I'm an A&P/IA, I did my own prebuy when I purchased my C almost 4 years ago. I looked at everything as the airplane was opened up for annual. I only concentrated on airworthy items in consideration of the prebuy. Cosmetic squawks were just that and had no real bearing on the potential purchase of a 45+ year old airplane.

I'd like to offer specifics, but nothing jumps out at me. I think that's a problem with being an A&P and recommending things to look at is hard to describe. Look it all over and take into account it's age. It won't be new and perfect.

David

[midlifeflyer]

Consider also that a written agreement between the buyer and seller about what constitutes a failure and what it means to the deal may be just as important as the PPI itself.

[DaV8or]

Consider also that a written agreement between the buyer and seller about what constitutes a failure and what it means to the deal may be just as important as the PPI itself.

 

Usually, this is dictated by what the FAA defines as airworthy and equipment required for flight. The seller usually guarantees that the aircraft is functioning and legal to fly by FAA standards. All other things, like items covered by Service Bulletins, accessory equipment and cosmetics are negotiable. This is how the two contracts I entered into were anyhow.

[carusoam]

That document is often called a "Purchase Agreement".

It includes who is doing what to make the sale go through. Price, downpayment, PPI and who is responsible for what.

It is a great way of setting the expectations of both the buyer and seller.

It is the standard of the machinery industry, and works well for the same reasons with aviation machinery.

All American uses this document as well.

Avoid surprises in advance with documentation.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

Having trouble attaching my PPI file to this post.  Any guidance or suggestions?

 

Clarence

[DaV8or]

Having trouble attaching my PPI file to this post.  Any guidance or suggestions?

 

Clarence

 

Did you want to attach it where people have to click on it to open, or were you wanting to display it in the post? What format is it in?

[chrisk]

This article doesn't address the current corrosion issues, but it has some things for a M20K.

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/mapalogarticle.html

[midlifeflyer]

Usually, this is dictated by what the FAA defines as airworthy and equipment required for flight. The seller usually guarantees that the aircraft is functioning and legal to fly by FAA standards. All other things, like items covered by Service Bulletins, accessory equipment and cosmetics are negotiable. This is how the two contracts I entered into were anyhow.

 

A contract is between two people making a deal and the FAA is not one of them. 

 

Personally, I've seen very, very few in which the seller guarantees anything, the most typical private sale being "where is, as is" with no warranties whatsoever.

 

You've apparently been in two pretty unusual deals,  purchased from a dealer (not just a broker), or had an exceptionally good bargaining position if you were able to get a guaranty.

[chrisk]

Usually, this is dictated by what the FAA defines as airworthy and equipment required for flight. The seller usually guarantees that the aircraft is functioning and legal to fly by FAA standards. All other things, like items covered by Service Bulletins, accessory equipment and cosmetics are negotiable. This is how the two contracts I entered into were anyhow.

 

All my airplane dealings (2 purchase, 1 sale) have been on a handshake.  The agreement has always been an agreed price and an inspection.   I pay for the inspections and if I don't like some thing, I can walk away.  If the inspection goes well, it gets rolled into an annual, with the agreement that the owner fixes airworthy items, and if the owner doesn't want to fix the item, I can walk.

 

I had several planes inspected and on the advice of good mechanics, passed on a few of them.  Once we got to the point of doing an annual, the sale was essentially done. 

 

My favorite is a M20K from El Paso.  It was being sold by a shop and it had a recent top overhaul and was just out of an annual (0.5 hours of flight time).  I test flew the plane, then off to a mechanic on the field.  Two cylinders failed a compression test, with leaking past the exhaust valves.  At this point I wasn't real confident in the shop selling the plane and I walked away.  --Not sure how the plane could have passed an annual 0.5 hours previously. And not sure if they were deceptive or just sloppy/lazy

[Guest]

Here is the check list I use in my shop. I will send it to anyone who wants a copy just email me.

Clarence

PRE-PURCHASE CHECK LIST

Manufacturer:​___________________ Model:​___________________

Serial #​___________________ Registration:​___________________

TTSN:​___________________ Verified from logs and hobbs: yes □ no □

Matches log book: yes □ no □ Data plate present? yes □ no □

Matches data plate: yes □ no □

Serial # listed on Type certificate? yes □ no □

Original and complete log books?​yes □ no □

Engine model:​_____________________Engine serial#_____________________

Matches log book? yes □ no □ ​ Matches data plate? yes □ no □ ​

Original and complete log books?​yes □ no □

Engine overhaul date?____________________ By who?_________________________

TSOH:_____________hrs

Matches Type certificate? yes □ no □

Propeller model:________________​Propeller Serial#_________________

Matches log book?​yes □ no □ Matches data plate?​yes □ no □

Original and complete log books?​yes □ no □

Propeller overhaul date?____________________ By who?________________________

TSOH:_____________hrs

Matches Type certificate? yes □ no □

NOTES:

Regulatory:

Weight and Balance report date?​____________________

Equipment list attached?​yes □ no □

Amendments attached?​yes □ no □

Pitot-static, altimeter, transponder check date?​_____________________________

ELT type?​__________________ Recertification date?________________________

Compass swing date:_________________ Date of last annual inspection? ___________

POH on board? yes □ no □ Is it current? yes □ no □

Aircraft Modifications? yes □ no □ list below:

Modification​STC​Mod Form​W & B Ammend.

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

___________​ yes □ no □ yes □ no □ yes □ no □

Damage history records? yes □ no □ (explain below)

Date​Event

_________​________________________________________________________

_________​________________________________________________________

_________​________________________________________________________

Airworthiness Directives checked for compliance: yes □ no □

Service Bulletins checked for compliance:​ yes □ no □

Service Instructions checked for compliance: yes □ no □

Pre Inspection Run-Up

Fuel boost pump indication:​ yes □ no □ Fuel selector operational: ​yes □ no □

Fuel gauges operational:​ yes □ no □ Fuel flow indication:​yes □ no □

Oil pressure indication:​ yes □ no □ Oil temperature indication: ​yes □ no □

Manifold pressure: ​ yes □ no □ Vacuum indicator: ​yes □ no □ Tachometer reading: ​ yes □ no □

Alternator output indication​yes □ no □ Alternator output voltage:_____________

EGT indication: yes □ no □ CHT indication: yes □ no □

Magneto checks: ​ yes □ no □ Drop: Left_______ Right________

Live magneto check: ​ ​ yes □ no □

Throttle operation: ​ ​ yes □ no □ Mixture operation: ​yes □ no □

Propeller governor operation:​ yes □ no □

Tachometer accuracy check carried out: yes □ no □

Full Power Checks (record data below)

RPM__________​MAP____________​Fuel Flow__________

Flight test carried out: yes □ no □ ​Satisfactory: yes □ no □

Flight test notes:

Engine and propeller Inspection:

Propeller blade damage​yes □ no □ Propeller spinner damage ​yes □ no □ Propeller grease leak ​yes □ no □ ​

Engine cowl damage ​yes □ no □ Cowl flap hinge damage ​yes □ no □

Compression readings​___/80​___/80​___/80​___/80​___/80​___/80

Oil filter inspection:​Metal: yes □ no □ Oil leaks: yes □ no □

Engine hose dates: ______________________________________________

Lord mounts in good condition: yes □ no □ Mount in good condition : yes □ no □

Engine mount reinforcements installed: yes □ no □

Baffles in good condition: yes □ no □​Tapes in good condition: ​yes □ no □

Muffler in good condition: yes □ no □​Flame tubes present: yes □ no □

Engine electrical wiring good condition: yes □ no □

Engine control cables in good condition: yes □ no □

Magneto/Plug wires/Spark plugs in good condition: yes □ no □

Magneto 500 hr check complete: yes □ no □ hours remaining ____________

Alternator/Generator mounting secure: yes □ no □

Firewall cracked or damaged: yes □ no □

Battery in good condition: yes □ no □

Fuel System

Fill fuel tanks full

Fuel tanks leaking: yes □ no □​

Fuel caps & O rings in good condition: yes□ no □

Fuel drains updated: yes □ no □

Landing Gear

Tires in good condition: yes □ no □​ Tires correct ply rating: yes □ no □

Brake discs worn below limits: yes □ no □ Brake pads worn: yes □ no □

Gear shock discs in good condition: yes □ no □​Updated: yes □ no □

Nose gear truss damaged: yes □ no □​Gear actuator updated: yes □ no □

Brake hoses updated: yes □ no □​Gear retraction satisfactory: yes □ no □

Gear doors worn: yes □ no □​Gear warning horn: yes □ no □

Airframe

Tubular structure corrosion: yes □ no □

Skin damage: yes □ no □​Hail: yes □ no □​Hangar rash: yes □ no □

Skin corrosion: yes □ no □

Wing spar corrosion in wheel wells and carry thru area: yes □ no □

Evidence of airframe repairs or damage: yes □ no □

Windows leaking: yes □ no □ cracked: yes □ no □ crazed: yes □ no □

Fire extinguisher: yes □ no □​Tail trim link play: yes □ no □

Tail trim hinge play: yes □ no □​Wing flap chaffing: yes □ no □

Seat belts in good condition, TSO tags present: yes □ no □

Seat back cams worn: yes □ no □

Instruments in good condition: yes □ no □

Placards present and in good condition: yes □ no □

Cabin door handle secure: yes □ no □

Interior lights working: yes □ no □

Exterior lights working: yes □ no □

Instrument panel lights working: yes □ no □

Instrument panel wiring in good condition: yes □ no □

Oxygen cylinder hydrostatic date checked: yes □ no □ _____________________

Oxygen cylinder replacement date checked: yes □ no □_____________________

Original paint? yes □ no □ Repainted? yes □ no □

By who?__________________ Controls balanced? yes □ no □

Re-weighed with painting? yes □ no □

Interior original? yes □ no □ If yes, flame certificates? yes □ no □

[carusoam]

Thanks for sharing that one Clarence.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

You're welcome,

It's long and detailed, I tried posting as a Word document, but was un able. As a result the layout is a bit off.

Hopefully it's helpful,

Clarence

[orionflt]

clarence,

Would you mind uploading it.

 

Thanks

Brian

[Ned Gravel]

Clarence:

 

You can go to the document download section of the site at http://mooneyspace.com/files/ and then upload the file as a word .doc.  You can see from the picture I am attaching that .doc files are acceptable.  Your second choice may be to print it to pdf and then upload that.

 

 

[DaV8or]

A contract is between two people making a deal and the FAA is not one of them. 

 

Personally, I've seen very, very few in which the seller guarantees anything, the most typical private sale being "where is, as is" with no warranties whatsoever.

 

You've apparently been in two pretty unusual deals,  purchased from a dealer (not just a broker), or had an exceptionally good bargaining position if you were able to get a guaranty.

 

The two times I have entered into an agreement to buy an airplane, it was by contract. With the amount of money at stake, the number of things that can go wrong with a plane and the buyer's horror stories one hears all the time, I wasn't going to buy a plane any other way.

 

A pre purchase inspection was required by me. The sellers both told me that to the best of their knowledge, the airplanes were airworthy and the point of the pre purchase inspection was to see if that was true. So the contract was worded that if the inspection turned up anything that would render the airplane unairworthy, I could back out of the sale no problem, or the seller would fix it on his dime. What constituted airworthy was defined by what the FAA considers airworthy.

 

Anything else the inspection turned up that might be wrong, but not ground the airplane, was not grounds for backing out of the sale without penalty. The way it worked was, I put the entire amount of the sale into an escrow account and we wrote up a contract. The seller was to get $1000 for his time and trouble if I backed out of the deal for some reason other than an airworthiness issue. Stuff like too many accessories didn't work, or it looked like there was a lot wear items coming up that I didn't want to deal with, or if I just plain got cold feet. If an airworthiness issue was discovered, I could back out and the seller would get nothing. Mind you, I had already done a pretty thorough inspection by myself, read through all the logs by myself and flown in the plane at this point. It was not sight unseen when we went to the inspection.

 

This is all I meant by "guaranty". The sales were absolutely as is where is sales. After the money was transferred and the sale complete, there were no implied guaranties. If at the next annual I were to find corrosion on the stub spar for example, I would have no recourse against the seller. There were no guaranties or warranties.

 

The original question of what constitutes a failure of a pre purchase agreement was in my case any item that would make the airplane un airworthy and the definition of airworthy was as prescribed by the FAA. In fact the first plane did fail the pre purchase and I did back out. Had I just done the deal on a handshake, or had I got a crappy mechanic to do the inspection, I would have bought that plane for sure and I would have been the subject of one of the tales of whoa.

 

Actually, the way I bought my plane I think is pretty common and I wouldn't do it any other way myself.

[midlifeflyer]

 

Actually, the way I bought my plane I think is pretty common and I wouldn't do it any other way myself.

 

And the way you describe it is pretty standard. And should be. I've seen deals blow up after a sale with a lawsuit to follow. In some cases, there was even a contract. Contracts don't necessarily stop people from suing each other, and a bad contract can even make it worse, but for the most part, the existence of something in writing laying out the expectations of both parties but it changes the landscape and makes a dispute less costly to resolve.