Corrosion on Auxiliary Spars

[prflyer]

I'm new to the forum and learning all I can.  I just ran across what appears to be an otherwise decent 1977 201 for sale at a price of 35K that has corrosion on the auxiliary spars behind the wheel wells.  I have some questions for the group.

 

Apparently, during a recent prebuy an MSC found corrosion on the auxiliary wing spars.  The mechanic stated: "Assessed the extent of corrosion found in left and right wings in wheel well areas: Left wing, aft spar, upper spar cap has intergranular corrosion which has progressed into the spar cap metal. This will require either a major repair or replacement of structural wing parts. Right wing also shows corrosion in the same area, although not as severe. The right wing could possibly be addressed by cleaning and treating the affected area. The corrosion found in the left wing is severe enough that the aircraft will not meet the requirements of airworthiness needed to pass an annual inspection.” The potential buyer walked away at that point.

 

The broker, who is not a Mooney expert, has been told that parts for the fix are available, but that labor would cost around 10K to fix these issues.  The airplane otherwise appears to be a good candidate with 350 since factory overhaul 8 years ago, a 430 gps and autopilot. The prop was overhauled a few years ago. It has had two wheel up accidents in its prior history.  Paint and interior are ok as is.

 

Is a repair of 10K realistic for this kind of damage repair?

 

Would it be foolish to buy an airplane that has this kind of corrosion damage? Obviously, I would have the airplane inspected carefully to locate any other issues before buying it and expect to do the repairs to the spars before flying it.

 

Any other things to consider?

 

Attached is a picture of what the damage looks like. I have not seen the airplane in person myself.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[rbridges]

My uneducated answer is "no".  If it were a 10K fix, why don't they do it?  I definitely wouldn't sell my J for 35 if I could sell it for 70 with a 10k investment.

[Hank]

Sounds like 10K labor. What about parts pricing and availability? Are new wing skins required? painting? etc.

 

To me, it doesn't sound like a good first plane, unless you just really want to rebuild/resurrect one, and have time, space and skills to do much of the work yourself.

[carusoam]

You could be one of the following...

(1) young mechanic looking for a project to get your career started...

(2) young pilot looking for a low entry cost into ownership of the world's coolest airplanes...

(3) middle age guy looking for life's next challenge...

How familiar are you with rebuilding machinery?

There are a few planes that have been combined together to come up with a complete plane. All you need now is that other 1/2 plane to make a match.

Thinking out loud...

What does a typical M20 J cost? 80k?

What does another 1/2 J cost? 40k?

What does it cost to have a certified mechanic put it all together?

How's your math skills?

1/2 plane A + 1/2 plane B + mechanic's time, tools, shop space...

Then paint, then engine overhaul... (Search for these on this site).

This could be fun for you...

Let us know what you find out.

Best regards,

-a-

Looking at the photo again... Did you notice the missing or broken rivet?

For this type of corrosion, You may want to pay an expert on the subject to get their opinion of what is really there.

Those experts are easy to find they are called MSCs...

[MB65E]

As an IA, if it was my own purchase...

I'd walk unless I had a spare wing for a 201. There are a few here that may know where a clean wing might be. To fix it, It would be a good project for some one that wouldn't need to pay labor. Not a good first airplane project...

-Matt

[Sabremech]

If I was in the market for another airplane, it's a project that I would tackle. I don't fear it being outside of my skill level but I couldn't recommend it to a inexperienced buyer.

David

[laytonl]

A spar cap is expensive to replace and requires special jigs to align everything properly.  Willmar in Mn is probably the best to give an estimate on this type of corrosion.  A spar cap replacement will be in the $20k range including parts and labor.  I wouldn't necessarily avoid this airplane, but I would definitely want Willmar to take a look and give me a estimate before buying.  Lee

[John Pleisse]

The fact that there is intergranular in both right and left spars is telling. There is also pitting everywhere. Nobody can tell by one pic. Regardless....it is grounded in its tracks and they are looking for a sucker to solve their problems. It's way more than $10k to fix it, likely.

 

Let's get down to the brass tacks. You want a 77 201 in not airworthy condition for $35K. There is a 1350 hour 201 listed in Virginia for $54k. If price is your issue and repairs seem certain to you...at least for $10k or more, why not buy a low time, low owner bird, likely not to have corrosion and put money into more tangible things than a corroded airframe. Want to spend money to fix things? Fix avionics and the engine. You can quantify these improvements better and really know what you have.

 

Intergranular corrosion on a 77 J? Pretty rare unless a Florida bird or dipped in flooding. Walk.

 

 

 

 

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=146669&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=10025074&dealerid=

[Alan Fox]

This plane needs a wing , by the time you are done , its going to be 20 K minimum , if the replacement wing does not have leaky tanks , or hidden corrosion in the rest of the airframe....

[carusoam]

Does Scott from Kansas have a spare J wing?

Thinking out loud,

-a-

[jlunseth]

10,000 is unrealistic for that repair.  The spar cap is immediately under the tank in the wing, so the tank is going to have to have all the sealant removed and then replaced.  If the intragranular corrosion is in the spar as well as in the spar cap, the wing will have to come off and a new spar installed, then a new spar cap.  I am pretty sure some skins on the fuselage will need to be undone to access the area where the work will be performed.  Several skin panels on the wing will need to be removed or peeled back.  It is a major mess.

 

And that repair had better be done properly, you don't want some jerry rigged thing holding the wing on your airplane, nor would you want to have a halfway repair done then sell the plane to someone else and the wing falls off while they are flying. 

 

Willmar can do this work.

[N601RX]

If I understand the original poster correctly, its the rear spar, not the main spar.  Still a big job, but not to the same extent as changing the main spar.

[KSMooniac]

Does Scott from Kansas have a spare J wing?

Thinking out loud,

-a-

Not much of left, unfortunately.  I have the center section, but cut off the outboard sections and scrapped 'em.  

 

I'm not sure where this plane is located, but if you're serious about it, you best bring a Mooney expert in to look at it, after talking to a few for a "feasibility study" over the phone.  At that point you should have a much better idea if it is worth spending money to get it inspected, purchased, and moved to a suitable repair facility.  My first call would be to LASAR in CA, and they might even have a spare wing.  

 

The deeper concern to me is what the steel cage looks like if the wing is that bad.  Step 1 might be to pull the pilot side interior panel and look at the steel, and if it really rusty then run away as the plane is pretty much scrap.

[Piloto]

From the picture it does not look that bad. I have seen it much worse. It will not impair the integrity of the structure but if not attended it can spread. My low cost option is to drill the rivet out, inject ACF50 by presure through the top until it comes by the rivet hole and put a new rivet. Recoat the area with zinchromate. Others may disagree with this but the option of disassembly and reassembly the wing is not trivial and may impair the structural integrity if not done right.

 

Also look into other areas like the bottom spar cap splice and structural tubing, specially below the cabin door.  

 

José 

[fantom]

If your plane didn't melt in Vegas, it wont rust away in FL. Wash the salt off it, keep it clean, in a hanger, fly it once a week, and ACF-50 treatment at least bi-annually.

 

Welcome to paradise.

[prflyer]

Thanks for all of the responses.  After evaluating this particular situation, I have decided NOT to pursue this airplane.  For someone who has the time, patience, and know how to get this repair done, this might be an option, but it is not for me.

[rbridges]

I think you made the right choice.  

[Guest]

You've made a wise choice. I carried out a PPI recently on this plane. It would never be issued a CofA in Canada.

Sadly it's an organ donor for the rest of the fleet.

Clarence

[preinke]

This plane is back on the market on Barnstormers for 59K. I wonder how much work was done on the aux spar. Armbuster is the seller, not a good omen.

 

Paul

'77 J KIKV

[Cyril Gibb]

It needed a lot more than just a spar... tanks were leaking like a sieve.. a whole raft of other issues found even BEFORE

 Clarence found the spar corrosion and we called it a day.  Filiform corrosion in many places.... on and on

I took the corrosion photo.  I couldn't get a better angle with the camera, but with a mirror you could see a row of corrosion popped rivets.

Then there was the list of unservicable avionics...

But maybe it's all fixed now

[KSMooniac]

Someone list the tail number so this thread might show up in Google...I would hate to see someone get stuck with a nasty surprise!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[WheelBuster]

Someone list the tail number so this thread might show up in Google...I would hate to see someone get stuck with a nasty surprise!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

Based on what I read earlier I would say this is the new ad - http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_920573_1977+Mooney+201+M20J+full+IFR.html

[rob47v]

Here is my experience with such matters. As some are saying, don't even bother, run away. At my job with this type of corrosion we try cleaning it and hope it doesn't go beyond the specified limits, that is an option. But it doesn't always in most cases workout that favorable. If it was me unless their willing to sell it for a song, I wouldn't buy it!!! Find a decent J have it corrosion treated and enjoy it. One other option is to find a clean wing, reasonable enough and have it installed if you get this aircraft at the right price that is. Unless I'm mistaken an E,&F models wings should work. But please check on that don't take this as gospel.