3D Print for Me a Titanium Mooney!

[aviatoreb]

I want a Titanium Mooney!

 

Here comes the process:http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Worlds-first-3D-printed-bike-2014.html

 

 

3 of my bicycles are Titanium.  The material is very light and very strong, when machined out of cast Ti, but the weak point is usually the welds are very difficult to get right - welding must be done in an oxygen free environment with very narrow tolerances for correct welding temps and time of application.  So if a Ti frame fails it usually would be at an incorrectly made weld.  So you are really at the mercy of the craftsman who does the built.  On the plus side, it never corrodes - a bicycle is in a very corrosive environment, besides road grime and salt, human sweat is salty acidic and very corrosive.  Nonetheless a Ti bike requires no paint or finish of any kind - thus the distinctive gray look of a ti bike.  And it is strong like steal and light like aluminum, and it is compliant and shock absorbing in a manner that other metals do not do.  Wonderful bicycle material.  But expensive and difficult to work.  Since a Mooney frame is built a lot like a traditional bicycle, I bet it could be in Ti.  And all the rest too - skins and everything!  (I know I am just dreaming - this is just a fun thread and I do not expect such a thing to ever get through the FAA).

 

Now this Ti 3d printing, and all metal 3d printing, worries me as far as strength as compared to cast Ti.  Instead of being one large piece of high density metal, it is build as if out of millions (billions) of tiny metal balls that are more loosely bonded by the laser hardening process.  So is the material as strong?  I don't know.  On the plus side - no welds whatsoever are needed and much more complex shapes are attainable, shapes that could formerly only be made by building in carbon fiber lay-up.

 

So when can they print me a Ti airplane?!!!

 

 

[co2bruce]

For a price, you can have anything in this world you want!

[aviatoreb]

For a price, you can have anything in this world you want!

 

Yup - and the technology I think does now exist - never mind the paper work.  As you say, money and enough more money and nothing is a problem.

 

Can you imagine - I think you could print an entire Ti Mooney all in one piece.  No skins or rivets - just print it with a thin shell as part of the 3d CAD image of the airplane.  Never to worry about tank sealing since the fuel cavity would be printed all in one piece with no seams.  Image a smooth smooth Titanium Mooney cast (well 3d printed) all in one piece with internal strengthening beams and so forth all in one piece and the skin all part of the one piece.  Obviously it would be smoother and more aero.  Then out of the (very large) 3d printer you would just then hang the control surfaces and rods (also 3d printed) landing gear and other moving parts, and then hang the engine (can I have a titanium engine too?).

 

I bet it would be light and allow you to carry lots more fuel and lots more passengers too, smoother, faster and no paint.

[carusoam]

Hmmmm.....

Ti framed Mooney....???

I still have my 70’s steal framed 10 speed bicycle. Weighs approximately one metric ton. It also provides a greater amount of exercise without having to cover as much distance.

Erik, generally speaking, what is the weight of your Ti bike compared to other traditional materials?

Many Mooneys are a tad nose heavy. Could we consider a Ti engine mount to go along with a composite prop? (Same application, lighter weight)

5- 10 lbs could significantly reduce ballast in the tail...

We are quickly moving towards Materials 102 class.

Best regards,

-a-

[DaV8or]

On a more realistic note related to this post, I have often wondered how much weight could be saved and therefore speed increased by converting all the welded steel landing gear assemblies to titanium? And to take this mod even further, what about all the push/pull control rods in the plane as well? Maybe carbon fiber tubes could also be used for the control rods.

 

Critics of retractable landing gear have always maintained that much of the advantages gained by reducing drag is negated by the increased weight to the airplane that causes increased induced drag. Could not use of titanium and carbon fiber make a difference here? 

[chrisk]

Now that Mooney has some Chinese backing, there is hope for this.

 

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130529-china-shows-off-world-largest-3d-printed-titanium-fighter-component.html

The article claims a 95% reduction in the cost of Ti parts

 

And on the political side, think what this means for the balance of power.... enough said.

[David Mazer]

I recall reading that they were 3D printing a jet engine part and that it was as strong or stronger than the part it replaced and 1/10 the cost.  Even if you had to fall back to a more conventional metal, you might still see tremendous cost reduction from labor savings and, probably, better strength and reliability because it would eliminate so many joints and rivets.

What paperwork? The FAA will let you build pretty much anything you want as long as you call it an experimental.  This would most definitely fit in that category.

[benpilot]

 

That would be awesome except I would add more room and give it two gullwing doors. 

[aviatoreb]

I recall reading that they were 3D printing a jet engine part and that it was as strong or stronger than the part it replaced and 1/10 the cost.  Even if you had to fall back to a more conventional metal, you might still see tremendous cost reduction from labor savings and, probably, better strength and reliability because it would eliminate so many joints and rivets.

What paperwork? The FAA will let you build pretty much anything you want as long as you call it an experimental.  This would most definitely fit in that category.

 

"They" 3d print all kinds of amazing stuff now.  They 3d print clothing, food, yes jet engine parts, electronics, metals - I had not realized until today they were doing Ti and as of two years ago when a salesrep visited the university metals printing was nice but not as strong as cast metals - but I bet over time that will be less of an issue.  I even read that they have 3d printed a working pig heart valve.  Its a new world.  ANd I want a 3d printed Mooney - with tanks that don't leak and lighter and faster.

[aviatoreb]

Hmmmm.....

Ti framed Mooney....???

I still have my 70’s steal framed 10 speed bicycle. Weighs approximately one metric ton. It also provides a greater amount of exercise without having to cover as much distance.

Erik, generally speaking, what is the weight of your Ti bike compared to other traditional materials?

Many Mooneys are a tad nose heavy. Could we consider a Ti engine mount to go along with a composite prop? (Same application, lighter weight)

5- 10 lbs could significantly reduce ballast in the tail...

We are quickly moving towards Materials 102 class.

Best regards,

-a-

 

Generally Ti bikes are lighter, but you don't tend to build with the same tube dimensions as a steal bike.

 

Here is a comprehensive website on that topic:

 

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

 

 

Material Modulus (psi) Yield Point Density (lb/ft³) Aluminum 10 to 11 x 10⁶ 11 to 59 x 10³psi (4-22 annealed.) 168.5 Steel 30 x 10⁶ 46 to 162 x 10³ psi 490 Titanium 15 to 16.5 x 10⁶ 40 to 120 x 10³ psi 280

 

 

Steel vs Titanium

Look at the chart again. You'll see that identical steel vs titanium frames would be about equal in strength, but that the titanium frame would be about half the weight and half the stiffness.

Such a frame would likely have a whippy feel due to the reduced stiffness, especially in loaded touring applications. To compensate, builders of titanium frames use somewhat larger diameter tubes to bring the stiffness more into line with what riders like. This tends to increase the weight a bit, but by making the walls of the larger tubes a bit thinner, they can compensate to some extent, and come up with a frame that is still lighter than a normal steel frame.

 

 

My own experience with 1980s era Italian steel bikes was that the workmanship was gorgeous but the engineering design (geometry) and build (choice of tubes was too lightweight for a tall rider) made for terrible bikes.  Plus they never lasted - they rusted out quickly from the inside (rain and sweat getting into the tubes) or I ended up just plain crashing them within a year or two.  My current Ti bikes (road 10 years) TT (7 years) 29er mtn (6 years) are in the same condition as when new.  The components wear and get replaced but the frame lasts.  I opted for thicker than minimal tubes since the stiffness was always my complaint with stock bikes, but still being Ti it is lighter.

 

Your question - making up numbers - I would guess that a Steel frame and ti frame of same strength would be 50-60% the weight for same stiffness but 75% in the weight in the stronger format I opt for.

 

A Ti Engine Mount frame is a fabulous idea.   Since an engine frame is built like a traditional bicycle, it could be built by a properly skilled craftsman today (if only the FAA would allow us) and it would never corode, it would be more compliant and shock absorbing (so I bet that would be good for engine vibration absorption) and could be lighter and stronger - and allow saving weight at the nose as you say.

 

 

On a more realistic note related to this post, I have often wondered how much weight could be saved and therefore speed increased by converting all the welded steel landing gear assemblies to titanium? And to take this mod even further, what about all the push/pull control rods in the plane as well? Maybe carbon fiber tubes could also be used for the control rods.

 

Critics of retractable landing gear have always maintained that much of the advantages gained by reducing drag is negated by the increased weight to the airplane that causes increased induced drag. Could not use of titanium and carbon fiber make a difference here? 

 

That is a fabulous and more realistic idea - replace just some of the parts on an existing airplane, rather than print a complete airplane - maybe such a thing could actually be done.  Landing gear?!  Absolutely.

 

I know a Chineese company that will produce absolutely anything in Ti that I can send them a CAD for.  I have used them to to produce two of my bicycles several years ago, from a CAD drawing, and including many small and intricate components.  Their workmanship to spec was gorgeous.

 

Here they are:

http://www.xacd.com.cn

 

Here is my very crankset which they took a photograph of the finished product, from my cad and then posted on their website for sale to other people - ok never mind IP issues.  Click on the picture of "Ti crankset"

http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?rpag=4&rootcl=3&cls=0#

that very crankset is on my bike in my garage now. Ti crank, ti spider, ti chainrings and ti chainring bolts.  Beautiful.  But all machine milled - it would be cheaper if 3d printed....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aviatoreb]

Now that Mooney has some Chinese backing, there is hope for this.

 

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130529-china-shows-off-world-largest-3d-printed-titanium-fighter-component.html

The article claims a 95% reduction in the cost of Ti parts

 

And on the political side, think what this means for the balance of power.... enough said.

 

Wow!

[chrisk]

Thinking about this a bit more, would there be a market for Ti cylinders.  I would think you could push the red line well past 450 degrees.