Advice on getting my Commercial

[ncdmtb]

I am looking for some advice on getting my commercial.

I currently live in Germany, but I am planning to visit my sister end of April for 2 weeks. I would like to use that visit to get my commercial. I am not looking at perusing a career as pilot (I am 45 and my career has already taken a different path ;-) but I like the idea of being able to fly skydivers, parcels, or people for a fee, or become a CFI.)

I already have a CFI lined up - the same one I got my IFR with in 2012. I am thinking about using Gleim for the self study ground school (I used Gleim for my IFR and was quite pleased with it). I would do the self study ground school here in Germany from my PC and then when I arrive in the US I would take the written right after I arrive so I can then focus on the practical part and my exam. I would take the dual and fill the rest of the requirements. I have approx 220hrs and not recent/relevant night experience. Ideally I would try to get my night experience in before I head over, but if not I would do this in the US.

Those with a CPL - how did you do it? Anyone take a similar path to mine? Is that realistic? What self study ground school do you recommend?

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[N9453V]

ncdmtb, your plan sounds quite workable. I did my Commercial in 2012 with a CFI in Burnet, TX while taking a week off from work. I did the written beforehand (strongly recommend the Commercial Written course from King Schools) and already had the requirements so it was just a matter of perfecting the maneuvers (Chandelles, Lazy Eights, Eights-on-Pylons, Power-off 180's and Short Field Landings to hit a point within 100ft). If you are fairly proficient and schedule within the DPE in advance I think 2 weeks should be enough.

Regarding your night requirements, I think it's just a cross country and 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop at an airport with an operating control tower.

-Andrew

[ncdmtb]

Thanks Andrew!

Regarding the King Schools course - is that 100% online? Or does it include material that is mailed (e.g. Books)?

-Nick

[N9453V]

Thanks Andrew!

Regarding the King Schools course - is that 100% online? Or does it include material that is mailed (e.g. Books)?

-Nick

Yep, all online and I think they have an iPad app you can use now too.

-Andrew

[flyboy]

2 weeks is certainly doable. I did the commercial + multi engine + instrument multi, in less time. I thought the commercial was kind of fun after the pressure I felt on the insturment

[DrBill]

Get the written out of the way, my instructor says about 10hr flight time MAX. Plus the checkride. That's probably going to be your harderst part is getting the checkride scheduled in that time period. Maybe some others can help on how to do that.

[Bob]

Andrew,

Where are you going to do your training in the US?

[ncdmtb]

>>Where are you going to do your training in the US?

I will be flying out of Centennial Airport (KAPA), Denver, CO. I am a member there of the Aspen Flying Club and fly with them when I visit my sister in Denver. I also did my IFR there in 2012. They don't have a Mooney, so I will most likely do my training in a 182.

-Nick

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[rbridges]

>>Where are you going to do your training in the US?

I will be flying out of Centennial Airport (KAPA), Denver, CO. I am a member there of the Aspen Flying Club and fly with them when I visit my sister in Denver. I also did my IFR there in 2012. They don't have a Mooney, so I will most likely do my training in a 182.

-Nick

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can you do that in a 182?  Are you okay as long as the checkride plane is a retract?

[DrBill]

The spot landing part must be in a retract, all else can be in fixed gear.

BILL

[jlunseth]

I did mine the other way around, took my 2 years to do it, but I was definitely not in a hurry I do not intend to do anything with it.  Maybe get a CFI.  You could certainly knock it out in a couple of weeks full time.  There are a few things to think about.  First, the requirements are a little more complicated than they look thanks to some Chief Counsel's Office opinions.  I see you have your instrument, you can use parts of your instrument training to satisfy 61.129(a)(3), but you have to go through your logs in some detail to show the requirements.  The Chief Counsel's Office wrote an opinion that was widely read as overturning the traditional rule that simply having an instrument rating counted for the ten hours of instrument training required in (a)(3)(i).  Several groups including AOPA chimed in and said that was wrong, and the original Opinion was then amplified with a further opinion that said the training taken for instrument could be used to satisfy (a)(3)(i), that what the original opinion had meant was there is not an exactitude between the requirements of (a)(3)(i) and the requirements to get an instrument, and that what was important was accurate logging.  So as an applicant, you now need to look at (a)(3)(i) and break it down into its specific training requirements, and show that you have satisfied each of those requirements by an entry in your logbook.  You need to be able to show training specific to: (1) at least ten hours of instrument training, (2) attitude instrument flying, (3)partial panel skills, (4) recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and (5)intercepting and tracking navigational systems. In my case my instrument training was a few years ago and the instructors at the school had written the log entries.  Thankfully, their logging was detailed and I was able to find and show training in each of these areas.  The DPEs vary somewhat on enforcing this, some just follow the old rule if you have an instrument ticket you have the training, others will follow the Chief Counsel's opinion, so you had better be ready on that.

 

The 2 hour cross countries in (a)(3)(iii) and (iv) must be done with an instructor.  If you do them in a Mooney the 100 nm requirement is easy, the 2 hours is the requirement you will need to satisfy.  We just picked a place to have dinner, climbed in the plane, did a day flight out and then a night flight back.

 

I have to say, the commercial requirements are the most complicated of all the various ratings, satisfying them is not a big deal, showing you have satisfied them is an ordeal, it took me quite a bit of time to go through my logs and show where all the appropriate entries were logged.  You might try to have that done (or everything except the training you are going to take) before you get to the US.

 

The maneuvers are not that difficult, and are fun to do, but most people find that perfecting the maneuvers to commercial standards takes some practice.  The one I thought was the hardest in my Mooney, was the power off 180.  You have landing window of 200', it is not that hard to make the runway, but making it minus 0', plus 200' of a spot is the difficult part.  Some DPEs will combine two maneuvers, the steep spiral and the power off 180.  You come in to the airport at an altitude that works for your aircraft, spiral down three spirals finishing more or less at the end of the downwind leg, and then do a power off 180 to a landing, all without power (you are allowed to "clear the engine" briefly during each spiral).  This one concerned me a great deal in my 231.  It has a minimum operating CHT and a minimum operating oil temp, and the POH warns that operating the engine above some very low power settings (16-18" MP) could cause the engine to stop.  So if I stuck the landing everything would be fine, but if I missed and had to go around, I could not apply power.  I talked that one over with the DPE in advance and pointed out the sections of the POH with the warnings.  The PTS does not require these maneuvers to be combined, some DPEs just do it, and she agreed we would not do it.  I nevertheless had practiced the combined maneuvers and could have done them if asked, but was never comfortable doing them and only tried them on warm days when the engine would not cool to badly in the spiral.  On cool days, the CHT's would be in the mid 100's after the first spiral.

 

Your aircraft might not have the same issue, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

[ncdmtb]

I have to say, the commercial requirements are the most complicated of all the various ratings, satisfying them is not a big deal, showing you have satisfied them is an ordeal, it took me quite a bit of time to go through my logs and show where all the appropriate entries were logged.  You might try to have that done (or everything except the training you are going to take) before you get to the US.

Thanks for the extensive and good response. I have (based on advice from this thread) just started the ground school using King Schools.

 

I am currently planning two trips "home" to the US this year. The first one will be pretty short - just a long weekend for a family event; but I will get a little flying in. I am shooting for April. I will take my written test and meet up with my instructor then (he is the same CFI I did my IFR with) and try to get a few hours in. I will go through my log book with him and review all the requirements. A friend on mine in Germany is an FAA certified CFI (he is actually the guy I bought the Mooney from). I will try to fill some of the "requirements" with him (e.g. cross country). Then latest in late summer/early fall I will head back to the US to finish up the training and take the practical.

 

Since I will not be taking lessons/test with my Mooney - I will need to familiarize myself with a different aircraft. They have quite a few airplanes, mainly C172. But they do have a few 182´s and a Piper Turbo Arrow. I´ll need to see what will meet the requirements best.

 

-Nick

[gregwatts]

In my opinion...........the Commercial was the easiest of all of my checkrides. Have your written done and you should not require more than 10 hours of direct prep for checkride. Make sure ALL of the requirements are met.......piece of cake!

[ncdmtb]

Update:

I got my Commercial last week!

I ended up using King Schools for ground school and did my written at PSI in Centennial, CO.

I took lessons in a Cessna 182RG from Aspen Flying Club with the same great CFI I did my IFR with. He prepared me well and I very much enjoyed learning the commercial maneuvers.

The C182RG flies like a "dog" compared to our Mooneys. I had full back trim during landings and still broke a sweat pulling back to rotate. If our Mooneys handle like a porsche, the 182RG handled like a dump truck.

But I got my CPL!!!! :-))