Sabremech Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 In light of the recent discussion of whether to be an AOPA member or not, what has the organization accomplished in regards to advocating for aviation in Washington DC? There's plenty of ideas and things they have been talking about for years, but what problem has been solved or can be directly linked to them and their efforts? Thanks, David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Dave when you have such a screwed up lame govt as ours actually what do we expect. All there other educational and aviation information and offerings are what we have, the aopa seems to have been beat up enough on this site of late. Gridlock folks with airplanes are elite that concerns me more the way our current govt looks at those with planes etc are bashed for being somewhat upper class?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Good questions, seems like AOPA is losing its fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 They answer all the questions you have to get your class III medical back in order after your unexpected health issue arises. The kind of questions you might have aren't handled as well in a public forum. That's worth several years of membership. Got my hat offer in my email today as well. There are many costs in aviation. This one, you get a hat and a magazine at least. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 They answer all the questions you have to get your class III medical back in order after your unexpected health issue arises. The kind of questions you might have aren't handled as well in a public forum. That's worth several years of membership. If they answered the question and not read to you the FAA medical standards you already found and read yourself. Maybe they are good at certain types of medical conditions only. Or perhaps, I got the person who knew nothing and could only read the FAA medical standards to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's kind of hard to know for sure but imagine if there never was an AOPA there might not be any non com aviation. Sadly there are fewer pilots and as our numbers shrink it gets harder to for any organized lobby to make its case in DC. So I don't know the answer to the question and frankly I don't care. I'm in for good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 If AOPA was not there, where would GA be today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Someone started the GA Coalition in Congress, and convinced many Representatives to join. I had no involvement in creating it, but some good legislation has come from it, like the Pilots Bill of Rights and hopefully the rewrite of aircraft certification regulations this year and next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co2bruce Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have a problem with the AOPA's public face. Namely their two biggest celebrity spokespersons, Morgan Freeman and Harrison Ford. Both of these guys are on record supporting the current administration. The current administration has done more to hurt GA than any I can remember. I'm sure they have succeeded in some of their lobbying efforts but they're not the NRA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88drvr Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have had pretty deep involvement with another originization that has a similiar government lobbying effort. I can say this for sure, success is not always measured by new legislation, it is stopping crappy legislation from passing or ever even garnering support. Like it or not, you have to have a strong voice in Washington and there is a strength in numbers. Sitting on the sidelines and not not having a unified voice/message are not ingredients for success. One only has to look at other areas of politics right now to see examples. I can promise you this, if there was not an AOPA (or a group with similiar numbers) we would all be saying "how did that legislation get passed?" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Most of what they do is immeasurable an not directly attributable. AOPA adequately promotes GA, they have provided member/group benefits (some not a good deal like hull insurance and credit cards), they have provided countless legal defenses, they fought regulatory battles....on everything, from airspace access and usage to the implementation of Sport Piloting, AOPA has acted a media watch dog when egregious media error hurts GA, they have an airport protection network watching local governments and their attempts to close airports. When able, they pass along valuable data to manufactures and retailers for the betterment of products, the Nall Report is a gold standard in aviation safety, AOPA hosts large conventions and airshows, their safety foundation is well funded and creates tremendous impact and finally....and most importantly.....they lobby...they lobby hard, sometimes only gaining small morsels of relief that many of us never see or know about. I hope they find their way. Soliciting more funds, living large and beating their own drum is not the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Besides their legislative efforts, I feel that my membership is money well spent. They offer hats, safety courses and magazines that offer safety advice. I am now a private pilot, but when I was a student pilot their magazines and emails kept me engaged. Now, their magazines help keep safety on the top of my head, and lets me know what is going on in GA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 What legislative efforts? Thank you Hank for bringing up what you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Charlotte and DC Airsapce, WAAS implementation (designed first Continental US approach), crafting frame work of LSA and FAR revisions, they have succeeded, albeit behind closed doors, to put off or stop user fees, kept 121.5 mhz ELT's available, significantly shaped the Unmanned Aircraft Bill, they stopped draconian tax increases in Maine, Colorado, Pennsylvania and Indiana (mostly on repairs and parts), they reshaped airport zoning in several states..including Nebraska, they held Congress to the fire during sequestration when all of the contract towers closed and they are active on several Aviation Rulemaking Committees that affect protections and necessary change in ways that can't be measured. But they still don't need a Citation Jet to fly from Frederick, Maryland to Washington D.C. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 What I don't get is why anyone in General Aviation complains about AOPA. As others have noted, many times it's not the legislation that gets passed, but that which gets defeated, which matters. User Fees are probably my number one pet peeve on this point and AOPA has staunchly fought against it. They also took a strong stand on the sequester tower closures. And all you have to do is actually read the monthly magazine to see all the grass roots and local activities they are involved in. Criminy, people, for less than the cost of half-a-tank of Avgas (per member) the AOPA is out there fighting for our freedom to pursue this beautiful activity. The other member benefits are the cream on top, in my view, but they also have strong value. I used their standard forms as the basis for the aircraft purchase and sale agreement that I use. I check the drug registry to know which ones are frowned on by the FAA. I've used the legal service to get consultation on each of my aircraft purchases. All that stuff provides way more value than the membership fee. And I use the AOPA credit card and through their points system I got two cases of absolutely delicious Kansas City half-pound beef hamburgers which lasted my wife and I more than a year. Now THAT'S a value! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 What I don't get is why anyone in General Aviation complains about AOPA. As others have noted, many times it's not the legislation that gets passed, but that which gets defeated, which matters. User Fees are probably my number one pet peeve on this point and AOPA has staunchly fought against it. They also took a strong stand on the sequester tower closures. And all you have to do is actually read the monthly magazine to see all the grass roots and local activities they are involved in. Criminy, people, for less than the cost of half-a-tank of Avgas (per member) the AOPA is out there fighting for our freedom to pursue this beautiful activity. The other member benefits are the cream on top, in my view, but they also have strong value. I used their standard forms as the basis for the aircraft purchase and sale agreement that I use. I check the drug registry to know which ones are frowned on by the FAA. I've used the legal service to get consultation on each of my aircraft purchases. All that stuff provides way more value than the membership fee. And I use the AOPA credit card and through their points system I got two cases of absolutely delicious Kansas City half-pound beef hamburgers which lasted my wife and I more than a year. Now THAT'S a value! I spend a lot of time at FDK, where AOPA is based. I know and like a lot of the employees, some of whom I've known for decades. That being said, my perception is that they have drifted from the core principals that the organization was founded upon, not so much because of what they do or don't do in Washington, but how the organization is run. As a political constituency, we are shrinking. Everything we accomplish in Washington is done through lobbying because as voters we are statistically insignificant. I would like to see AOPA doing more to bring young people into the fold. Almost (almost) every young pilot I know (<40) is second generation...meaning that the bug was passed down to them through a senior family member (that was my situation). Think of how many GA PP SEL scholarships they could award for the annual cost of flying that stupid Citation... Moreover, word around the campfire is that the use of said Citation has often been abused. Blocking the N number on F/A did little to bolster my confidence that it was simply a rumor (not sure if it is still blocked). I let my membership lapse at the end of 2011. Perhaps I'll rejoin now that Craig has left (I had high hopes for Craig but quickly became disillusioned with him as I had his predecessor, Phil). It just does not seem like the grass roots organization it once was or at least appeared to be, and I think that is what is needed. All of the above being said, I think the magazine combined with the legal plan is worth what it costs...but I get enough aviation related magazines. I want a more grass roots organization and as of late, I've had a bad taste for the politics and management of the organization. I'll digress for a moment to say that I thought the sequester closing of the towers was the right thing to do (even though it did not happen). There is a ton of waste in aviation politics. Very few of the class D airports that were slated for closure actually needed a tower and I will include KFDK in that mix (flame suit zipped). My home base (KHGR) has a tower from back when Fairchild was there. The tower has not been "needed" for quite some time. Then there's the 100s of millions that go to subsidize small feeder airlines flying twins. Cape Air gets subsidized to the tune of 1.3M annually to operate a C402 between KHGR and BWI (59NM). Why is the tax payer paying for this? So 800 people a year with the means to pay $400 extra to fly from home can do so for $400 extra instead of the actual price. This country is a mess when it comes to spending and it would be hypocritical for me rail against gov't waste in other areas without being critical of aviation. AOPA did not impress me by lobbying to keep towers open...those funds could be put to better use. People often compare AOPA to the NRA; I think that doing so is folly. One has a large membership base that politicians fear, the other has a membership base far too small to influence anything at the ballot box. Instead of burning Kerosene by flying to travel to speak with existing members, I would prefer AOPA focus on growing and activating the next gen of pilots.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiser Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 read Mark Baker's editorial in the latest AOPA Pilot magazine. He seems to recognize exactly what Ross has said. He wants to build a collective strength by joining with other GA organizations to create a louder voice. Grass roots, new regional fly-ins around the country. no mention of the jet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Did they go out and buy the jet or was it donated? How about some of those other airplanes? I don't know - I'm asking. I am not sure what to say about the jet. When the car company executives came to Washington in 2008 in their jets, and got gaff for it from Congress, that absolutely killed the corporate jet industry for several years, which is an important part of the aircraft building industry. And here is the AOPA trying to walk a fine line of being supportive of the whole GA including jets - not just the owners of jets but the builders of jets. So snubbing jets is not good either, nor is snubbing the piston little guys like you and me. Maybe the happy middle ground is to stick with propellors like the king air for their longer executive travel. Baker sure sounds great coming out of the gate. I hear a lot of unhappy members and former members here - even though I am "happy enough" to keep supporting and not be worried, I hear from many of you what must be multiplied many times over in the piston GA community more broadly. I bet this discussion is being repeated on beechtalk, vansair, diamondaviators, cessnatalk, piperspace, (making the last few up). One of you guys in Frederick should do us all a favor and knock on Baker's office door and suggest that he should read this thread. Maybe it could be helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Would you rather have the head of the organization spend his time lobbying, or driving a car? Congress critters have little to talk about... Ms. Pelosi rationalized in her pea brain she deserved a govt 757 to fly her back and forth between CA and DC every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 If a Citation helps them utilize their time better, so be it. It's a big country and not everyone can spend 10 hours straight in a Mooney, like stinky cargo pants. Whining about them having a little jet is kind of shortsighted IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Seems like AOPA is all about blaming the aviation community and giving sorry excuses about why nothing gets done. When I contacted them, they basically defended the govt position instead of what is best for GA. WTF? Also they keep asking for support from the pilot community but whether they get it or not, they seem to be failing at their missions. I'm tired of hearing the excuses and blame. We need a stronger face of aviation to ensure freedom. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quik flite Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I would like a detailed assessment of their accomplishments ,yearly . Not just have them take credit for the few good things that come their way, we should not have to guess what they actually accomplished. I do not think they should just be given the money and not prove their worth. Yes I do like the ASF part of the membership. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Ok, I took the advice to let my AOPA membership lapse... My insurance is up for renewal and it will be $40 more this year because I let my AOPA membership lapse. Thanks, I'll take the hat and the mag here's the $40... The other bright idea...I'm with CO2 above...the NRA pulls a fair amount of sway in our political world. Aviation would have more sway if we could get it into the bill of rights somehow. How do we get the right to remain silent and the right to fly airplanes? At least the AOPA actors were in decent movies. Reagan ran the country, but his movies were not so hot. Be careful with what you ask for, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why don't you just get the MAPA discount rate with Falcon? It works out to same price as AOPA but you get outstanding service and don't have to support an organization you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 At least the AOPA actors were in decent movies. Reagan ran the country, but his movies were not so hot. Everyone loves Bedtime For Bonzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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