Why can't we use Ethanol

[yvesg]

  On 9/6/2013 at 10:41 PM, jetdriven said:

The biggest thing I see is stability in storage. The E10 in my lawnmower won't run right, or hardly start after 90 days. It picks up too much moisture from the air and goes stale. I couldnt imagine the nightmare it would make in my aircraft wing tank. Its unstable. 100LL, for contrast, is guaranteed good for a year, and actually is good for 7 or 10 years.

 

Then there is the cost, the energy value, airplane compatibility, vapor pressure, mixture settings, et al.

Byron, shall I use 100LL in my lawnmower on the last month of the season, this way I will not have to fight with this to empty the fuel in the carburator that will turn stale before the next season. Don't forget the mower up here stays in storage for six months.

Yves

[nels]

Not sure why ethanol is supposed to be "green". My understanding is it takes at least three bushels of corn energy to reap the ethanol for usage from one bushel of corn. In other words, for every gallon of ethanol run through your engine you've actually cost the environment the heat delivered from four gallons.

Also, if adding water to ethanol has no effect on engine performance, why wouldn't you just add water at every fill up. Think of the range you could then get.

[danb35]

The problem with water and ethanol is that water dissolves in ethanol, which it does not do in avgas.  Water can and does get into our tanks, which is why we sump the tanks before flight.  If our tanks are full of ethanol, we have no way of knowing how much water is in there.  Yes, as long as it's a reasonably low amount and remains in solution (I'll leave that question to others on the thread who understand the physics), the engine will run just fine, but where there is water there can be water-soluble contaminants--and pH is the least of the worries there.

 

The deal-breaker to me, though, is energy content and density.  If I have to burn 50% more fuel to generate the same amount of power, my range is greatly reduced.  If the fuel is more dense than avgas, my useful load is decreased.  Mooneys are sold as cross-country traveling machines; reducing the range by 35% seems to defeat that purpose.

[jetdriven]

  On 9/7/2013 at 1:30 AM, yvesg said:

Byron, shall I use 100LL in my lawnmower on the last month of the season, this way I will not have to fight with this to empty the fuel in the carburator that will turn stale before the next season. Don't forget the mower up here stays in storage for six months.

Yves

Heck yeah, 100LL is real gasoline. I burn in my lawnmower, trimmer, outboard motor, and occasionally in my 375 HP turbo eagle talon. It will run 35 PSI of boost on that stuff.

[triple8s]

The whole point of ethanol in gas is to reduce the mpg we get. Road use taxes are calculated by per gallons used. Vehicle mpg has increased over the years resulting in fewer tax dollars per road mile driven. So the green tale begins, its better for the environment. Is it really? How much diesel fuel is burned to plow, till, irrigate, harvest, transport, distill, transport to refinery, blend etc. How is it more efficient overall? There is no way it can be. What will it do to the price of food? What a big lie!

[nels]

  On 9/7/2013 at 3:35 PM, triple8s said:

The whole point of ethanol in gas is to reduce the mpg we get. Road use taxes are calculated by per gallons used. Vehicle mpg has increased over the years resulting in fewer tax dollars per road mile driven. So the green tale begins, its better for the environment. Is it really? How much diesel fuel is burned to plow, till, irrigate, harvest, transport, distill, transport to refinery, blend etc. How is it more efficient overall? There is no way it can be. What will it do to the price of food? What a big lie!

Good points.

[N201MKTurbo]

I can attest that lawnmowers love avgas.... 

[John Pleisse]

2 issues:

 

1) Water vapor in your fuel

2) Politics and Farm subsidies.

 

Ain't going away and it won't go in my engine. I buy "Sta-bil" by the gallon for my cars and boat motors. I Delaware, they sell it a Walgreens.

[pinerunner]

Ask a Russian what to do with straight alcohol. They're very experienced.