Tire Kicker ! me ?

[Cyril Gibb]

As a new member here, I hope this is the appropriate forum for a mild rant.

(I won't be specific to avoid any embarrassement)

 

There aren't a lot of Mooneys for sale in Canada, so when I saw one on an Internet site it caught my attention.

There were no pictures and the only Information provided was year and TTAF hours, and said to eMail for more info.

 

I sent an email requesting log images, equipment list and asking price.

The response I got had no further info, and essentially called me another tire kicker (one of many, apparently) because I asked the price.

 

I can understand weeding out tire kickers before they waste too much time, but surely not just asking for basic information.

I wish I were well-heeled enough so I would consider asking a price to be vulgar.  Unfortunately, I'm financially in the ever-diminishing middle class.

 

There.... I feel better just writing this....

 

[Rwsavory]

Sounds like you're dealing with a misanthrope who really doesn't want to sell.  I would never pursue a purchase without the seller stating an asking price.

[fantom]

Probably a Quebecker

[thinwing]

Not all owners can sale their own aircraft and even with a broker can be their own worst enemy ,I would look else where

[Marauder]

Or a broker...

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Sounds like you're dealing with a misanthrope who really doesn't want to sell.  I would never pursue a purchase without the seller stating an asking price.

What's a misanthrope?

[Marauder]

What's a misanthrope?

 

Basically someone who hates everyone...

[scottfromiowa]

An un-savory character no doubt...

[FBCK]

Cycil sent you a PM.

[carusoam]

First he was mistreated...

Then he was called a name...

Then he got renamed. Cycil?

Best regards,

-a-

[DrBill]

When I first queried the broker handling my airplane, I got no response after 2 tries so I sent a letter to the owner.  I got a call from the owner the day he received the letter and I also heard from the broker. Needless to say the owner was pissed at the broker but we came to an agreement. At least the broker knew I was no tire kicker.   In fact, in the airplane world, I've not seen a "tire kicker" All of the calls we got on our previous plane were really interested.

i feel, anyone who does not post a price is not interested in selling.

BILL

[chrisk]

_{All I can say is that its lots of fun dealing with people.  When I was looking for a plane, there was more than one where I walked away because some one was too quirky.  One was a doctor from the mid west.  We had a brief discussion on the condition of the plane and agreed on price subject to a pre purchase inspection.  After 2.5 months of trying to arrange the inspection and getting nothing but excuses, I moved on.  --He was always to busy.}

[Jamie]

Before the mooney, I looked at a '74 relatively low time 172 with hail damage. It was much less expensive than the mooney, obviously, but it came with hangar space. Long story. Anyway... wow, were the owners arrogant. Balked at a pre purchase because "it just came out of annual". Didn't see any reason to take it anywhere else. I was a cash buyer and let them know it. Ignored me. Fine. A few months later, I check on trade a plane and the thing was marked "SOLD", but at an asking price 20% under where I was ready to pay cash. Idiots.

 

Point being, just because you're called a tire kicker doesn't mean you're a tire kicker. People are dumb. Given the distribution of intelligence in the general population, most people are dumb. Given the frequency with which I seem to hear "any traffic please respond", most pilots are idiots.

 

Take your cash and move on. It's likely to be a buyer's market for years. Time is on your side.

[Cyril Gibb]

I sympathise with the 20% thing.  Several months ago when I was trying to see which aircraft would fit my wants and desires, I was evaluating just Arrows or Mooneys.

I happened to bump into (figuratively speaking) a very nice Mooney for sale while talking with one of the partners at a local airport.

They were asking what I thought was way too much to even consider.

Just recently, I heard they had sold for a price I would have whipped out my chequebook for.

 

You have to wonder how many planes are sitting out there that could be sold while people like me don't bother to make an offer because it sounds like an unreasonable asking price.

[carusoam]

thoughts from a machine sales guy...

When it comes to buying and selling expensive items...

(1) what is expensive? Expensive to one person is pocket change to another... Life is unfair.

(2) On experience, the more experience you have in buying or selling similar machinery at a similar price, the better off you will be...

(3) On markets... Markets are a function of time and location. Planes for sale, don't change location much. The buyers ussually have to travel to see the plane. Some sellers have plenty of time to sell their planes. Often, the rest of their natural lives.

(4) On emotions... Decisions can be based at least partially on feelings. When you find the right plane at the right price you will probably still have the feeling that something else is going to bite. This is a good preservation trait, may not save your life, but may save your wallet some day...

(5) On competition... There is some competition going on between people looking to buy any item. First, be ready. Then, when you see something that matches what you want. Don't drag your feet too long.

(6) There are keys to being emotionally comfortable...

(a) Know your mission, the best that you can for the longest time frame that you can foresee. Mission and time frame are personal.

('b) Know what Mooney best fits your mission.

('c) Know your finances, what you can afford comfortably.

(d) Know what you will do if a valve sticks or a cam rusts.

(e) Know the plane you are buying. There is value in a proper PPI.

(f) Know that not all planes are in perfect condition, not all sales people have your best interest in mind. Some are, and some do.

(g) know that an individual selling a plane may not have experience in buying or selling anything. He may hold the keys to your next ride. It will take more work from you to achieve what you want.

(h) Know that nice planes, sold by ethical people, will feel expensive. If it doesn't, move up to a turbine or a twin...

Visit All American's web site for a base line comparison for your research...

Thanks, that's my writing exercise for the day. how did I do?

Best regards,

-a-

[Cruiser]

it is said many times this is a "buyer's market" and sellers can be a**holes.

 

I have found that it is ALWAYS a buyer's market. BUT the buyer must know how to treat the seller and maintain the negotiation.

 

Remember, a plane is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay, not what the seller wants to get.

[aviatoreb]

Some airplanes are priced so far outside of the rest of the market for what they are, it can only mean one of two things.  a) the seller is so attached to their machine and remembering sellers markets of years past, that they are completely unrealistic.  Cal this the stubborn seller. They are "selling" their airplane because their significant other says it has to go...so they are "selling it".  Look dear - I'm trying to sell it but no one will buy it.  Call this the contrary seller.

[fantom]

it is said many times this is a "buyer's market" and sellers can be a**holes.

But don't underestimate what a**holes 'potential' buyers can be, especially when they perceive a buyer's market is a license to steal.....thus wasting the seller's time.

It works both ways.

[fantom]

 Look dear - I'm trying to sell it but no one will buy it.  Call this the contrary seller.

 

I call it the smart pilot. Are you married, Eric?

[John Pleisse]

Now 'days, nobody is a tire kicker. People want to buy and sell and there is no run on GA a/c's. I have never dealt with the gentleman, so I am clearly not endorsing his brokerage. But in terms of presentation, "Wildblue" does it right. The guy has logs, videos, history and he seems to attract decent people with decent planes (the usual caveat Jimmy Garrison should always be your first choice).

 

http://www.flywildblue.com/

[aviatoreb]

I call it the smart pilot. Are you married, Eric?

 

Yes sir - I am!  :-)

 

Sincerely,

Erik btw.

[FloridaMan]

I did my share of "tire kicking" before laying down cash for my airplane. Even with the one that I bought, I had a very difficult time going through with the purchase. This was the largest single purchase of my entire life and it had taken me years to save up for it. The best planes that I found were unlisted, mine included. The good folks at Willmar knew the owner was getting ready to sell it and told me about it when I asked. 

[Jamie]

 This was the largest single purchase of my entire life and it had taken me years to save up for it.

 

This. I live in a town where I could easily buy a house for the money I spent on the plane. It's been almost six months and I'm just now getting used to the idea that I own one.

[320KPH]

As an ex sales consultant in the automotive field, as well as developing to become a trainer of ab intitio sales consultants I can honestly say most "experienced" sales people are their own worst enemies.

 

I like dealing with trainees, they give you better service and actually ask questions about how you are intending to use the vehicle, not just "Lighter or darker colours? Manual or auto transmission? Sedan or hatchback? : Here's your car!" as the experienced guy does.

 

Experienced sales consultants want to get to the point where they can justify your reasons for NOT buying a vehicle (to their "manager") and that's why they provide you with the objections. 

 

And if you own the vehicle yourself, you have more emotion invested in it and may not have the best perspective to efficiently sell it.

 

The stories I could tell...

[AmigOne]

Why buy a Mooney in Canada and have to go through the expense of importation procedures plus the airworthiness inspection (plus painting the N number) when there are so many nice ones here?