Taking Mooney for a Spin (poll)

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Your first mistake is to "fly it". Operate it, don't fly it.

The sim instructor said kids with a lot of video game experience usually do better than pilots.

I “hand” flew all the approaches. I didn’t want to waste my time learning the automation. 

[Will.iam]

14 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Yep, stall warning ends at 60 knots. Most airplanes have stall warnings that stop and ridiculously low speeds, just not Airbus.

Here is the thing. Today's airliners are tremendously complex because they are designed to transport people at the lowest cost. In addition there are huge environmental pressures, none of which is within our control. They are ridiculous curiosities of aerodynamics just like the B-2. The Airbus at altitude has a wing/fuselage ratio that was unheard of 40 years ago and it does it with big fan engines running near flame out lean and CG's in the range of 39% MAC plus. All in the search for economic efficiency. We as professionals have a job to fly these things as they were designed, not as we wish they would be. Just like the B-2 when the computers go wrong, they can crash, like the B-2 at Guam. It is incumbent upon the professional to know all the failure modes and be able to operate the airplane within the envelope during failures. 

When I saw my first Airbus and I saw that big red square around all the sensors, I committed to studying what happens when those sensors go wrong. Just as when I first started flying an MU-2 45 years ago, I noted the enormous down force designed into the horizontal stab and noted the importance of pitch control.

I find most problems are the result of training. I don't believe training has been the same since we stopped "building the airplane" orals. It needs to improve, but I can tell you, the airlines are going to embrace fly-by-wire, just as they embraced FMC's. Professionals will have to decide if they want to work these type of machines, or find different work, because it is not going to change. 

I totally agree on training. I think the EET sim training has been awesome and invaluable since all of our training for stalls are at low alt through my career at least. Getting stall training at alt is definitely different in someways not immediately understood and you cannot use your lowlevel experiences in some of those situations. Had Air France had this training their outcome i think would have been very different but it took that incident and well as a few other high alt induced tragedies to get this new training. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Did they retrofit your sims for EET or did they have to buy new sims?

[GeeBee]

35 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Well the A/T system is already disengaged because the thrust levers are already at idle so again computer not recognizing what position the levers are at.  And the computers were in normal law when they stalled the plane, in an acceptance flight you test all the functions including the computer to stop the deceleration to include going into Alpha floor to override the pilot with the thrust lever at idle. But since the AOA said it was still at the same flying angle as when it started even alpha floor did not engage. A simple code check / verification that at 1 g level flight if the airspeed is decreasing and the AOA is not increasing alert the crew something is not right either the AS is wrong or AOA is wrong but don’t keep going like all is normal. What lulled the crew was all the other checks had passed perfectly as I’m sure countless other checks had done. They had one left to do and they were running out of time so they combined it on the way back to land. Rushing is always bad and made worse by getting away with it most of the time. This time it got them mostly because they were sure the computer was going to correct this in just a few more seconds as it’s so slowww to respond sometimes. I had an A320 on leveling off at 2000ft and turning to intercept final literally get so slow the computer said speed speed speed as the thrust levers were so slow to increase and this was with all the automation on. Airbus needs faster computers to keep up but that would require lots of money to certify so i don’t see that happening. 

Again, I'm going to say it. The retard is a generic reminder. It does not look at anything. It just wants to remind you to close the thrust levers. Just like my LHS says "check landing gear" every time. It does not look at gear position.

 

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Again, I'm going to say it. The retard is a generic reminder. It does not look at anything. It just wants to remind you to close the thrust levers. Just like my LHS says "check landing gear" every time. It does not look at gear position.

 

And that is exactly why I’m getting the C model of the LHS so it’s not a dumb system. 

[Will.iam]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Did they retrofit your sims for EET or did they have to buy new sims?

Retro fit. The control screen is totally different in that sim compared to the sims that are not converted yet. 

[Will.iam]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The sim instructor said kids with a lot of video game experience usually do better than pilots.

I “hand” flew all the approaches. I didn’t want to waste my time learning the automation. 

Once you realize you are not flying it the computer is you are just “guiding / requesting” the computer to do something and as long as the request is in the parameters of the computer it will execute your request. I. E. Hold full right aileron and the computer will give you up to 67 degrees of bank and that’s it. 

[N201MKTurbo]

10 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Once you realize you are not flying it the computer is you are just “guiding / requesting” the computer to do something and as long as the request is in the parameters of the computer it will execute your request. I. E. Hold full right aileron and the computer will give you up to 67 degrees of bank and that’s it. 

Yeah, that's what they told me, but getting the hand to forget what it has been taught for years is hard.

I didn't break the airplane and all the passengers walked off, but they may never fly that airline again.

[GeeBee]

The other thing is that the A/T may be disconnected but in normal law it is still there protecting the alpha floor and the barber pole. Say you disconnect the A/T at 1500' but your PF lets the speed deteriorate above 75' or he flares early, A/T is coming in, don't care where your levers are and when it does, it is reminding you to pull them off for landing.

[Pinecone]

13 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Just like my LHS says "check landing gear" every time. It does not look at gear position.

 

If the MicroKit one, you need to upgrade to the 200-C.  It checks the gear switch.

[GeeBee]

Enjoy the video

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cjua5CyjTCV/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY%3D

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

If the MicroKit one, you need to upgrade to the 200-C.  It checks the gear switch.

Do I really need to upgrade?

[Hank]

20 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Do I really need to upgrade?

Doing so will keep you from ignoring the voice, as it will only speak when the gear is down.