Pre-purchase inspection MN

[Sable1]

I am currently looking at a '79 M20K-231, and I'm about ready to make an offer on it.  I'm looking for a recommendation for a good shop to the PPI.  Everyone I talk to says take it to Willmar Air.  The issue I have is that they are currently doing the annual (a rather extensive one at that).  I did talk with the mechanic working on it, and got his spin on what he's found, and he was very straight-forward.  However, even though this is the first time he's seen the plane, I would still like to have someone worknig for me to do the pre-buy.

FWIW, this is my first airplane purchase, and I've been working primarily with the broker (who I feel has represented this plane very honestly and with no pressure)

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 - Soon to be Mooniac

[Cruiser]

Jason Doscher

 

 http://jed-aireaviation.com/

 

He is located at KBBB 

[gregwatts]

If Wilmar is doing the annual......you can't get a much better PPI than that. When they sign off on that annual, you can rest assured that the plane has been gone thru. If there are specific items you want looked at, this is the perfect time.....while the plane is opened up. And it is at the seller's expense......!

 

 

 

My opinion only!

[coldav8r]

Ditto on Jason Doscher. He knows his Mooneys and is a great guy to boot.  He did a thorough PPI for us this spring - the annual has just been completed and there were no surprises.

[Marauder]

Willmar has a great reputation, but I understand your concerns. At a minimum, you could have an independent IA review the logs for potential issues.

[Sable1]

If Wilmar is doing the annual......you can't get a much better PPI than that. When they sign off on that annual, you can rest assured that the plane has been gone thru. If there are specific items you want looked at, this is the perfect time.....while the plane is opened up. And it is at the seller's expense......!

 

 

 

My opinion only!

I have had a couple of people tell me that as well.  i did actually stop down there a couple of weeks ago and took a look at the plane while it was opened up.  I spent an hour or so going over it, and nothing glaring stood out.  There was a motor mount that needed to be replaced (still waiting on the part), battery tray needed some attention, things like that. SB208 and SB282 are in compliance, along with the fuel tanks resealed last year.  The prop is approaching TBO at 1700+ hrs and 15 years, but I just need to factor an overhaul into the deal.  Along with paint and interior and ....  (does it ever stop??  )

Thanks for the reply.

[thinwing]

Getting the second opinion is just another expense....make your offer and deposit preducated on Owner telling Wilmar the plane is under contract and you want them also representing you for the prepurchase.If they will do this..they know that squawk items that are not airworthiness items are negotiable..ie new paint paid for by the owner.I cant see how a second opinion that is done in a day or two can possibly give you more information than an MSC annual of Willmar caliber...my opinion too

[KSMooniac]

Jason Doscher is a great recommendation from what I've read over the years.  If you already saw it opened up and talked with Willmar, though, that very well might be enough reassurance for me.  You should ask the owner to share Willmar's entire squawk list after you have an agreement in place and see what is/was a required fix vs. a discretionary/recommended fix, and negotiate from there.

You said it was the mechanic's first time with that plane.  Any idea if it has been to Willmar before?  If it is based in the area, perhaps Jason Doscher has already worked on it and could offer an opinion without taking it to him.

[fantom]

 The prop is approaching TBO at 1700+ hrs and 15 years, but I just need to factor an overhaul into the deal.  Along with paint and interior and ....  (does it ever stop??  )

 

 

Sounds like you'll be buying a very nice plane. Has the current owner agreed to new paint, interior and an O/H'ed prop? If not, that might be a hard proposition to sell.

[Sable1]

Jason Doscher is a great recommendation from what I've read over the years.  If you already saw it opened up and talked with Willmar, though, that very well might be enough reassurance for me.  You should ask the owner to share Willmar's entire squawk list after you have an agreement in place and see what is/was a required fix vs. a discretionary/recommended fix, and negotiate from there.

You said it was the mechanic's first time with that plane.  Any idea if it has been to Willmar before?  If it is based in the area, perhaps Jason Doscher has already worked on it and could offer an opinion without taking it to him.

I am 99% sure it's not been worked on in MN - at least according to the logs.  Strategic Aircraft (in Willmar) is brokering the plane, and I think it was their recommendation that Willmar do the annual, and so it was flown up here.  It's been in Arkansas for a number of years.

I think the owner would be willing to share the squawk list me - I've got a verbal on most if it already.  I don't believe there were any AD issues, but there may have been some SB that should be done (not sure though).

I do feel like I've already got a free PPI, and maybe that's enough.  I don't know that having someone else look at now would reveal anything that's not already been mentioned.  Brian at Willmar takes a lot of pride in his work, and he seems pretty particular on what he signs off on.

[Sable1]

Sounds like you'll be buying a very nice plane. Has the current owner agreed to new paint, interior and an O/H'ed prop? If not, that might be a hard proposition to sell.

Mechanically the plane appears in good shape.  The plane is almost 35 years and has 4100 hours, I have no misconceptions that it's new.  The paint is probably 15+ years (it's in the logs, I just don't recall), and I don't think it was done by the best shop.  Some chipping, and the leading edges are pretty bare.

It's priced with new paint and interior (and to some extent the prop) being on the new owner - and I'm ok with that.  If I don't go too crazy on the P&I, I should still be into it for $100k or less.

So if there are no surprises before the annual is done, all in all it seems to be a good deal.

[KSMooniac]

That looks like a pretty decent plane to me.  Low time and recent engine, plus the nice intercooler and Merlyn and $8k worth of fuel tank work.  Panel is a bit dated...is that 430 a WAAS unit?  Any damage history?  Any idea who maintained it while it was based in AR?  

 

Many of us on this site have used a great scheme designer before we re-painted, and I can highly recommend his services.  PM if you're interested!

[Sable1]

That looks like a pretty decent plane to me.  Low time and recent engine, plus the nice intercooler and Merlyn and $8k worth of fuel tank work.  Panel is a bit dated...is that 430 a WAAS unit?  Any damage history?  Any idea who maintained it while it was based in AR?  

 

Many of us on this site have used a great scheme designer before we re-painted, and I can highly recommend his services.  PM if you're interested!

No damage that was noted or apparent.  Rivets look clean and straight, no odd logbook entries that would indicate something happened.  430 is not a WAAS unit, unfortunately.  And you're right, the rest of the panel is a little dated, but certainly good for my type of flying.  I don't fly enough IFR to have my personal minimums down to published minimums.  But I'm sure there will be upgrades there as well.  A new radio and transponder come to mind...

Most recent entries were from Wings Avionics in Fayetteville, and Aircraft Maintenance Center, along with TAC-Air.  Those go back to 2005.  Before that it looks like a lot of the annuals and other maintenance were done by an A&P, but no company listed.

(also, check your pm)

[FloridaMan]

I had the same concerns with my plane. Willmar located it for me, had done the annuals for the previous 20 years and were really the most qualified for the PPI (which includes stuff not normally done in an annual such as more in-depth corrosion inspections). 

 

If I hadn't lost my job back in March, I would seriously consider bringing it back up to them this month for the annual this year. 

[gjkirsch]

Since Willmar is doing the annual and is really highly recommended to begin with, why not contract with Bruce Jeager to review the logs, talk to the mechanic and text fly the plane for you? He is no longer directky involved with Willmar and can check you out in he plane for insurance.

[KSMooniac]

Since Willmar is doing the annual and is really highly recommended to begin with, why not contract with Bruce Jeager to review the logs, talk to the mechanic and text fly the plane for you? He is no longer directky involved with Willmar and can check you out in he plane for insurance.

That is a great idea.  Bruce is a Mooney guru and would be a great transition CFI if you have never flown Mooneys before.

[Sable1]

i want to thank everyone for posting on this, and providing such valuable feedback.

Unfortunately this deal did not work out.  But I will keep the knowledge gained here and apply it to the next one.

 

Fly safe!

[chrisk]

What happened?  It looks like a nice plane to me.

[Sable1]

All things considered, I think it's a good plane.  But it's just turning out to be more work and additional cash outlay right off the bat.  The paint is in pretty bad shape - showing bare metal on the leading edges, some chips, and fading.  The interior I could probably live with for a short bit, but it would kind of drive me nuts every time I'm in it.  At 1700hrs and 15 years on the prop, I don't know how long I would want to wait before doing something with that.  The glass was something to negotiate as part of the PA, but facor in a few grand for that.  So that right there is an easy $35k, probably more.  Not to mention the additional down time in the shop.  I'm thinking I can probably find a better deal on a 201 that would work just as well for me.