Any Interest in an AC/Ice Box Product - Gauging Interest ???

[Guest]

Early Price group is closed at $250.

 

We have one more batch at $299 being made, and then will raise to $350 for the summer.

 

Its currently on Sale at $299 on the site

http://switchboxcontrol.com/icebox/

 

We got so many preorders on the cheaper price this week, and want to ship the 1st batch soon. Please stay tuned next week for pictures and specs

[PTK]

I think you mean the "real a/c". Your link took me to the coolers. Yes, there are. It is a permanent installation so you carry the weight around all the time (it isn't as easy to install and remove as they imply). It is supposed to be off during takeoff and landing. There is a significant amount of installation cost. Most airplanes require a second alternator or a much larger alternator installed. The ducting is the same as for the cooler but the unit is installed in the tail cone making it necessary to cut a hole for it (I know some one that tried to tie it into the planes overhead air vents with very bad results). I think you also need a hot air exhaust through the plane.

That's interesting. They describe it as "...completely portable and self contained..."!!

[David Mazer]

A guy across from my hangar has a Trinidad and he purchased the "real A/C".  It works, it is nice, but he went through a lot of installation issues to make it right.  Maybe just his experience but they do let on to the installation issue and the not so completely portable when they talk about the exhaust air being vented through the rear cargo wall.

[Guest]

We made a lot of progress this week. We're in the 2-3 hour range at the moment with a temp delta of 20-30F degrees.

 

Not really focusing on the design/appearance yet. Just getting the longest lasting IceBox possible, and transfer the BTUs out of the 'ice source' and into the circulating water

 

Really positive results so far. Will update with pics when we're close to full production

[Guest]

Ok here we go!

 

We have been testing all week, with the help of almost 50x pilots in the Batch1 Group involved with feedback and assistance -- from all over the world. Spread across the BT, Copa, VAF and Mooney sites. Everyone is really excited and a great collective of pilots and engineers are involved. Its been a lot of fun and productive this way! 

 

Here are some specs and early-early prototype pictures:

 

1. We've managed to extend the range of our IceBox to almost 4 hours and beyond! Wow! The temperature delta is nice and steady. No more -- 1 hour of usage and then warm air blowing out. The curve is flat and consistent with this design. We believe we can get it to the 5 hours and maybe even longer range.

2. The key was to NOT drill any huge holes in the Lid for the heat exchanger. The Igloo Box stays as designed by Igloo, a sealed, insulated container for our Ice Packs+ Ice+ Water mix. 3. We mount everything outside and to the side of the IceBox. This allows the lid to remain a valuable horizontal surface for stacking luggage, another IceBox, etc. All the "heat making" devices are outside the box and can be flipped up for tight storage.

4. The internal plumbing is very specific now. It maximizes surface area of the Ice and really extracts every BTU possible from the "cold material" you use. We have cold plates, plumbing/routing which distribute the cold water very specifically.

5. We've sourced an amazing duct which expands and enlarges diameter all-in-one. Similar to ArcticAir's. This is a great material choice.

6. Another key was to NOT have the flowing water extremely cold. In our interviews with pilots, the freezing cold air blowing on their face or passenger/wife/etc was NOT comfortable. Because we raised the exhaust temp to the high 50s, instead of low 40s... we have Less/No condensation and a much longer lasting product. The ice lasts up to 3 hours without melting in our tests. The trade off is the cooling delta is not extreme at the beginning and then nothing after an hour. We keep it steady by raising the temp up of everything with hardware. In our tests, more comfortable than freezing air on you.

7. Electrical Controls... Inline Remote Control for Pump and Fan, Wireless Remote for Pump and Fan. Future Iphone App/Bluetooth with Sensors inside the IceBox.

8. Accessories -- 12V Battery Pack for preflight operation with master off, Y-splitter duct work for 2 seats upfront, longer 12V cigarette cable, Cold Packs, More Ice Trays, 12V accessories like 2nd Cabin Fan in back seat and 12V hook up on box

9. Slip Cover for Igloo-style Box, with mounting rings for attaching bungees or cables to airplane, seat belt loop for attaching in back seat

10. Case Size, Final Parts List, etc - TBD still

 

If anyone would like to be involved with us, the first pass site is here

 

http://switchboxcontrol.com/icebox/

 

 

 

[Guest]

Hey guys, we're narrowing down the choices on the boxes/sizes. Help us decide so we can fill everyone's needs.

 

Currently... Arctic Air has 3 sizes: 30, 38, 52q

B-Kool has one size: 36q looks similar to this unit here

http://www.coleman.com/product/36-quart-cooler/6281A718G?contextCategory=8540#.UYffZStNa1l

 

We did a lot of testing last week and tried Igloo Marine vs Coleman vs etc... and the best cooler for this purpose is definitely the Coleman Xtreme. It keeps the Ice much longer than any other. We tried these 2x sizes in various planes at the Field and all worked, even with a Diamond/Back Seat down.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

We want to make the product you guys are looking for: size-wise, longevity, etc.

We found that wheels and handles are not super necessary, since you can put it in the baggage compartment and never move it again. But let me know, thanks everyone.

 

 

36 qt --http://www.coleman.com/product/36-quart-xtremereg-5-cooler/6251A748?contextCategory=8581#.UYekpStNa1k

52 qt - http://www.coleman.com/product/52-quart-xtremereg-5-cooler/6050A748?contextCategory=8581#.UYek2CtNa1k

50 qt with wheels and good color - http://www.coleman.com/product/50-quart-xtremereg-5-wheeled-cooler/3000002003?contextCategory=8581#.UYekxStNa1k

[David Mazer]

My Arctic air is the old style, so it is a slightly different size, but it was the middle size at that time.  Bigger would be too big.  I recommend the 36 qt size but the dimensions aren't listed for the wheeled cooler on the Coleman website.

[HopePilot]

Small as possible.  If I can't get it into the plane it won't matter how efficient it is...

[Marauder]

Phillip -- I apologize for not reading the whole thread. Have you calculated the required BTU? If so and it is reasonable, have you considered a Peltier driven unit for a next generation of product? There are commercially available DC units. They will be more expensive obviously but offer a great alternative to lugging ice around. I for one would be interested in that option. Here is a 400 BTU unit that runs on 28VDC at a 5 amp draw: http://www.eicsolutions.com/400btu-dc-thermoelectric-air-conditioner.php

[1964-M20E]

Phillip -- I apologize for not reading the whole thread. Have you calculated the required BTU? If so and it is reasonable, have you considered a Peltier driven unit for a next generation of product? There are commercially available DC units. They will be more expensive obviously but offer a great alternative to lugging ice around. I for one would be interested in that option.

Here is a 400 BTU unit that runs on 28VDC at a 5 amp draw: http://www.eicsolutions.com/400btu-dc-thermoelectric-air-conditioner.php

Those are neat but 400BTU will not get you anything in the cabin of an aircraft.  This is  the same thing they have in the coolers you plug into your cigarette lighter.   Electronic thermal heat transfer is good for small applications.  That particular one is for small electrical enclosures to keep the electronics cool.  You could use it for your avionics stack though.

 

You would need to be around 5000BTU for a good start to cool the cabin.

[Marauder]

Those are neat but 400BTU will not get you anything in the cabin of an aircraft.  This is  the same thing they have in the coolers you plug into your cigarette lighter.   Electronic thermal heat transfer is good for small applications.  That particular one is for small electrical enclosures to keep the electronics cool.  You could use it for your avionics stack though.

 

You would need to be around 5000BTU for a good start to cool the cabin.

 

I pulled the 400 BTU unit as an example. I know there are higher BTU units that are available in DC configurations. If 5000 BTU is required to cool a cabin, it probably won't work. I think you start hitting the 20 amp power threshold around the 1500 BTU units and the weight starts becoming a factor.

 

I have these Peltier devices in the heated/cooled seats of my F350. With them running in "cool" mode, I need to raise the temp on the A/C to stop becoming an ice cube. I wonder if building them into the seats might not be a solution or at least part of it. Quite honestly, the only time I suffer in the heat is when I am preparing to fly or taxiing back.

[1964-M20E]

Now we might be on to someting. 

[Guest]

Im on with Coleman now.

 

Here are the sizes... what do you guys think? Can you help with a size that will fit through your door??

 

Lets definitely go with Coleman.. its a much better product than Igloo.

 

50qt with wheels Black Case (Xtreme rated - 5day insulation)

22.5"L x 17.4" W x 18" H

http://www.coleman.com/product/50-quart-xtremereg-5-wheeled-cooler/3000002003?contextCategory=8581#.UYekxStNa1k

 

36qt - B-Kool style (Non- Xtreme rated - 3day insulation)

23L" x 14.9" Wx 13" H

http://www.coleman.com/product/36-quart-cooler/6281A718G?contextCategory=8540#.UYffZStNa1l

 

36qt long rectangle (Xtreme rated - 5day insulation)

26"L x 14.75" W x 14" H

http://www.coleman.com/product/36-quart-xtremereg-5-cooler/6251A748?contextCategory=8581#.UYekpStNa1k

 

52qt long rectangle (Xtreme rated - 5day insulation)

27.75"L x 14.9" W x 17.25" H

http://www.coleman.com/product/52-quart-xtremereg-5-cooler/6050A748?contextCategory=8581#.UYek2CtNa1k

 

30 qt cube (Non- Xtreme rated - 3day insulation)

18.09"L x 11.73"W x 15.33" H

http://www.coleman.com/product/30-quart-cooler/3000001842?contextCategory=8540#.UYqKdyt4ZQk

[PilotDerek]

I like the 50qt one with wheels or the 36 qt long rectangle.

[David Mazer]

Just a thought.  If you are making the entire assembly outside the cooler, why can't you offer multiple sizes depending on the persons needs.  A short body Mooney pilot might want the smallest possible and a long body Mooney pilot might want the largest.

[Oscar Avalle]

Update - We have 2-3x prototypes in testing right now, and tuning the longevity of the IceBox, with various parts and suppliers. Our design is Not the typical AutoMotive Heat Exchanger/Routed Lid model that everyone else is using. We're really happy with the current design layout, as its going to be much easier to use in crowded Summer cabins than the current models. We have 6x pilots on the Intro $250 special ('kickstarter phase') and then we're gonna go into full production and raise the price to the normal retail one. If anyone else is interested to be involved during this phase, let us know support@switchboxcontrol.com

Interesting any pictures and description of the concept? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Oscar Avalle]

Phillip -- I apologize for not reading the whole thread. Have you calculated the required BTU? If so and it is reasonable, have you considered a Peltier driven unit for a next generation of product? There are commercially available DC units. They will be more expensive obviously but offer a great alternative to lugging ice around. I for one would be interested in that option. Here is a 400 BTU unit that runs on 28VDC at a 5 amp draw: http://www.eicsolutions.com/400btu-dc-thermoelectric-air-conditioner.php

I also apologize for not reading the whole thing...I would be interested too. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[PTK]

Those are neat but 400BTU will not get you anything in the cabin of an aircraft. This is the same thing they have in the coolers you plug into your cigarette lighter. Electronic thermal heat transfer is good for small applications. That particular one is for small electrical enclosures to keep the electronics cool. You could use it for your avionics stack though.

You would need to be around 5000BTU for a good start to cool the cabin.

Could put it behind Aspens to keep them from frying?! 

[Marauder]

Those are neat but 400BTU will not get you anything in the cabin of an aircraft. This is the same thing they have in the coolers you plug into your cigarette lighter. Electronic thermal heat transfer is good for small applications. That particular one is for small electrical enclosures to keep the electronics cool. You could use it for your avionics stack though. ;)You would need to be around 5000BTU for a good start to cool the cabin.Could put it behind Aspens to keep them from frying?!

Not required, but it might help tame the flames on my GTN 650...

[Guest]

This is a really quick Pirep, I'll update from the computer later

 

We received an Arctic Air, 36qt, 1fan, Duct model today

And tested it in our plane

 

Material choices are all really nice in this unit! Really nice hinges, fittings, copper, wiring, switches, etc. Looks like it's worth the $550

 

Now does it work and how is the experience loading it, using it during flight, etc

 

We bought 20lbs of ice and 1gallon of water from a convenience store. 

 

Loading it was very cumbersome. The experience was not comfortable. We decided to bring the empty case to the baggage compartment, then load from the inside. Really awkward, all of that. 

 

Quick notes:

 

- 12V cigarette cord/plug barely reached to the panel. Copilot had a taught straight wire on his right shoulder for 2 hours

 

- no aux battery, we couldn't turn it on or feel it was working until taxing 

 

- when we turned the fan ON.. A huge PUFF of white plastic particles and dust went all over us and all over the plane and panel! Wow. They are sawing into the duct work for stress relief and the manufacturing process left a huge mound of white material at each cut mark. About 5 long machined cuts, and then fan ON, sprayed us completely like snow. No joke! Very upset at that... Be careful if you buy the duct model

 

- 20mins of really nice cold air. Was about 43-45 and ambient in the plane was only 80. We measured the whole test again, at equal intervals

 

- around 30 min mark noticeable change in temp. Measured at 52

Still nice though. Wish the fan wasn't so strong and the duct went farther, just my preference 

 

- around 45 mins no feeling of cold air, measured at 58. Duct is far away, and fan is strong. Perceived cooling is the key here. Can be warmer, but needs to be closer

 

- at 50mins was 62F coming out, no feeling of coldness again

 

We landed 2hours after start and checked the box... Only water and not cold really

 

Ok, we'll test again with a block of ice in the arctic air and then run the prototype  IceBox alongside this one and go flying for a few hours and repost with a video, pics, data, etc

 

Ps ideas - gel packs and a little freezer in our hangars are going to make this really work better. We found a good mix of a special pack, ice, water, etc that really works. 

 

Also, the inline controls they have is excellent. I understand the need for it and the wireless remote. We are going to have BOTH as standard equipment, not options. Both are very useful

[PTK]

Not required, but it might help tame the flames on my GTN 650...

Your GTN is internally cooled. And it's so well engineered, it'll warn you way before it even comes close to overheating! Now how cool is that?!

[fantom]

Could put it behind Aspens to keep them from frying?! 

 

Put it under your seat to ease being a flaming a$$ hole

[Marauder]

Not required, but it might help tame the flames on my GTN 650... Your GTN is internally cooled. And it's so well engineered, it'll warn you way before it even comes close to overheating! Now how cool is that?!

Hmmm....must be a design problem. Why else would they need to build in warnings for overheating. They must know something!

[PTK]

Hmmm....They must know something!

Garmin innovation! Cool, very cool!

[David Mazer]

 

Loading it was very cumbersome. The experience was not comfortable. We decided to bring the empty case to the baggage compartment, then load from the inside. Really awkward, all of that. 

 

Quick notes:

 

- 12V cigarette cord/plug barely reached to the panel. Copilot had a taught straight wire on his right shoulder for 2 hours

 

- no aux battery, we couldn't turn it on or feel it was working until taxing 

 

- 20mins of really nice cold air. Was about 43-45 and ambient in the plane was only 80. We measured the whole test again, at equal intervals

 

Ps ideas - gel packs and a little freezer in our hangars are going to make this really work better. We found a good mix of a special pack, ice, water, etc that really works.

 

I always load ice and water with my unit already in the baggage compartment.  It is too heavy and awkward to do it any other way.  But, it really isn't a big deal to put ice in it since I have just one really large chunk of ice in which I imbed a rope handle.  I also have small hand hold indentations along the bottom of the ice to make handling easier.

 

When I purchased my unit I also had a problem with the cord being too short.  It isn't really difficult to get a cigarette lighter outlet extension but the ArcticAir people sent me an extension for their cord without charge.

 

My unit goes on when the master is on so I often immediately turn the master on while I get ready to start the engine.  I have two really large batteries so it isn't an issue and the plane is cooled off immediately.

 

I have never found ice/gel packs to work nearly as well as ice and I have been able to extend the duration of cooling by using a solid 20 lb block of ice and crushed ice around it is I really want maximum effect.  I can tell it is cooling for about an hour depending on the OAT (the higher the OAT, the shorter the duration of course).  The big blocks of ice take a couple days to freeze at about -5 degrees F in my large chest freezer so I tend to create 3 or 4 of them as inventory so I'm never without.