Intercoolers for 231 - possible source!

[fatalflaw]

Hi Jim. Airflow systems have revamped their web site and the 231 intercooler product isn't there any more. However, it is here: link. Anecdotal evidence is though that it's more efficient than other products, and it's MUCH easier to install.

 

Have a look at the links and google the product. If you like it and want to go for it, please call Bill at Airflow Systems on +1 949 218 9701 to get your name added, and let us know here. If you come on board that should be 8 of the 10 people we need.

[DaveAnderson]

Do you guys notice high temps often enough to justify the intercooler?

[fatalflaw]

My EGT, TIT and oil temp are much higher than I would like, in the cruise and in the climb. I run LOP but I would like to run closer to peak. I have to cruise with the cowl flaps half open about 75% of the time, as my oil temp creeps up to the edge of the red zone otherwise. I thought that was common to all non-intercooled 231s, and admittedly it doesn't help flying in the summer in southern france, spain and north africa.

 

But the intercooler has other benefits more than just lowering temps, it's also about fuel consumption and engine longevity.

 

I like your Mooney's paintjob by the way

[Jim F]

I called airflow and left a message. Thanks for putting this together.

Dave, I am an engine guy and back in the day. I overhauled aircraft engines at a major engine overhauler in Palo Alto CA. In my opinion there is no question that a intercooler is good for the engine. A denser cooler air charge to the cylinders will give better detonation safety margin and lower CHT. That is why you see them on almost all turbocharged engines. First and foremost you engine baffle seal must have NO leaks. Treat the seals like a radiator. No to water leaks and No to air leaks.

[chrisk]

I sent an email to Airflow systems.   Hopefully I am on the list

[fatalflaw]

M20Kid - have you been in touch with Airflow Systems recently? We have 9 confirmed purchasers - could you find out if that's enough to get us over the bar?

Thanks

Jim

[jlunseth]

I have the turboplus.  I think the stuff about a 15% fuel savings has been debunked, but the cooling is still a major advantage.  I have both CDT and IAT on my JPI and it is routine to see a 100 degree plus difference in high altitude cruise.  The CDT redline is 280, and that is routinely exceeded in climbing into the 20's.  I don't think on most days that I would be able to get above FL170 or 180 without the intercooler, and without exceeding CDT redline.  The redline is there to protect the engine against detonation caused by a too high IAT, and with the intercooler in place the CDT redline is just irrelevant.  There is so much cooling differential that the CDT can go to 295 or 300 and nothing happens to the engine, it is happily running with a much lower IAT.  Cooling efficiency starts to drop fairly sharply in this range (above FL180) and the significantly lower IAT helps with all the engine temps. 

 

As far as running at a lower MP is concerned, the turboplus comes with a table for adjusting from the MP for a given power setting in the POH, down to a lower MP because of the cooler more dense air coming out of the intercooler.  Most people will tell you that the adjustment is a little overstated, that some adjustment should be made but not all of the adjustment called for in the table.  Don't where the lower MP makes a lot of difference though, it is a way for adjusting for the fact that you need "x" molecules of air for a specific power setting, and the air coming out of the intercooler being cooler, you will supply "x" at a lower pressure.  It may mean that the turbo can run a little slower, but I doubt it makes much difference to the turbo.  The turbo still has to operate to compress "x" molecules of air into the airflow, those molecules just get supplied to the engine at a lower temp.  There is some loss of efficiency (it is a radiator, there is friction with the fins) in the intercooler, so according to the GAMI people, the turbo has to actually supply air at a higher pressure going into the turbo, that if there were no intercooler.

[Emmet]

Do you see any reduction in CHTs or TIT with the intercooler?

[damcmurt]

I see this thread is a little old. Did the 10 ever get made?

If not I might be interested. Getting ready to do an overhaul in the next year, so it would be a good time to add it. Already have the Merlin.

Thanks

[M20Kid]

The magic 10 were not reached.  I have spoken with Air Flow Systems from time-to-time but they have not offered to make any production runs yet.  The word I get is that they are pursuing a buyer for the STC and hoping that company will make the requested units.  Air Flow Systems seems to think the new STC owner (if that ever materializes) will be asking a higher price for the units, but I don't remember if he said a price.  I'm still interested in one of these intercoolers.  If anyone else wants to call Air Flow Systems to add some urgency I think that would be a great idea.

[chrisk]

I just called the owner.  He is still in negotiations on selling/licensing the STC.  He expects an update in early April.

[Emmet]

... still hoping that it will happen sometimes ...

[CaptRJM]

I went 'round and 'round with Airflow Systems 4 years ago.  Seems that they gave up their PMA because they wanted to concentrate on the experimental market.  They strung me along for a year!  Then they came back with a commitment of 5 units.  When I came up with the commitment, the excuse was they needed to find someone to make them.  3 months later, after a bunch of unanswered emails and phone calls, Airflow finally said they weren't interested.

 

I only mention this because I don't want everyone to do a bunch of work and get their hopes up only to have it all fall apart in the end.

 

After all this I called Turbo Plus, got a firm quote within 2 days and had the unit in hand in less than a month.  That's the way to do business .... not string people along.  Kit was very complete and very good instructions.  

 

Am I happy with the Turbo Plus?  YES!  I frequently see a 100+ degree drop between CDT and IAT when cruising in the mid-high teens.  Picked up about 10 Knots at same power settings.

 

I can't make a comparison but I think the Turbo Plus unit using a NACA Duct will be more efficient than the Airflow unit having a blast tube installed through the aft baffle.

[mooneyspeed]

Any recent developments on the AirFlow Systems front?   I haven't received any email responses from them.

 

I did send a message off to Turboplus, and they said they are awaiting new PMA, 90 days outlook.  I thought the system has been in production for years.

[CaptRJM]

22 hours ago, mooneyspeed said:

Any recent developments on the AirFlow Systems front?   I haven't received any email responses from them.

 

I did send a message off to Turboplus, and they said they are awaiting new PMA, 90 days outlook.  I thought the system has been in production for years.

Turbo Plus has been in production for years.  However, they moved their facility and have to get new inspections to obtain their PMA.  

This is probably a busy time for them.  A phone call is probably best.  They are a stand up company, just in the middle of a lot of changes. Give them an opportunity.

I wouldn't waste my time with AirFlow Systems.  All they are is talk (if you can even get them on the phone).

[carusoam]

@Turboplus Stopped by just the other day to discuss how they were doing and what's in their plan.

Best regards,

-a-