Selling a Vintage Mooney

[Z W]

I see a lot of threads about the market, and the best strategy to sell or buy a plane.  I just finished selling our 1968 M20C, at $1k less than list price, and thought I would share my experience.

 

It was a well-equipped, beautiful plane, but it had damage history (multiple gear-ups and prop strikes, along with a forced landing on a road in 1994 where the wings struck sign posts).  It also had a 1300-hour, just past mid-time, engine.

 

I did not use a broker.  I took the time to put ads on Barnstormers, Controller, and Trade-A-Plane, along with Mooneyspace.  I was concerned about the amount of my time it would consume; however, almost all the inquiries came through email, rather than telephone.  I found that to be very manageable.

 

I priced the plane aggressively.  I made it stand out as the best deal on the market, by listing it well below the list price of the next comparable short-body Mooney with an IFR GPS, 4-cylinder engine monitor, standard 6-pack panel, a functioning autopilot, and nice paint and interior.  It got a lot of attention.  I probably received 2 or 3 inquiries per week.

 

I saved a lot of time and effort by compiling all the photographs, specs, logs, etc and putting them into my Dropbox account (www.dropbox.com).  I then had a standard email with links to download all the information.  When I got an inquiry, I just pointed them at the info and said, "Let me know what your offer is."

 

I had two very serious buyers who were told by multiple lenders that they could not get financing on a plane over 30 years old, or one with damage history, or one with a mid-time engine.  They eventually walked away.

 

The third serious buyer got it done.  I don't think he's flown the plane yet, since the plane is still in the shop getting a fresh annual and having some minor issues fixed.  I hope he enjoys the plane as much as I did.  I hear he has joined the site, but I'll leave it up to him to introduce himself.  One interesting fact - he was not concerned about the "damage history", because the aircraft he's been flying usually have multiple bullet holes in them.  Any airplane that has not been shot up seems like an improvement.

 

It took about 30 days to get the final signed contract, and another 30 days for inspection and closing the deal.  Part of that delay was me finding a weekend to take it to his mechanic for the pre-purchase inspection.

 

My take away?  The market is still alive.  You can sell your plane.  Lots of people are out there looking at Mooneys.  I watched the market for a long time before listing, and the ones that sit for years are sitting for a reason.

 

I'm sad to see the plane go.  I learned to fly instruments in it, and took my family a lot of places.  But I think the new owner will take care of it.

[TonyPynes]

Good write up and appreciated.

[Lowbid]

Zane, I assume you purchased the Trophy to replace the C? How do you like the new bird?

[Z W]

We had both the C and the 262 for a couple of years. My father and I both fly so it was not completely crazy. We made a half-hearted attempt to sell the C after we got the 262, but had a bad experience that probably resulted from using a broker and coming to the market with a price in mind. You cannot do that, by the way - the plane is only worth what the buyer will pay. We eventually came to realize trying to own two makes no sense. We are also in business together, so we cannot easily both be out of the office at the same time. Somebody has to stay in town and keep things running. The 262 is a great plane. The paint and interior are bad but it is likely getting a makeover soon. Our airplane budget just got a little looser. From the left seat, though, it is great. It climbs 500-1000 ft a minute, at gross, to at least FL180. It is very happy burning 11.5 gph at peak TIT, and that gives you 170-185 knots between 9000ft and FL180. I dont go higher than that but it will go faster up there. It is actually better mpg and lower fuel cost than driving an SUV. It is the king of economy. The 252 cowl flaps keep the engine very cool. The speed brakes, on board oxygen, 3-axis autopilot, and fully functional back seat made it the choice to keep over the C. The speed difference between it and the C was actually pretty negligible on most trips, unless you count the tailwinds the 262 can sometimes reach. I like to snowboard, so the turbo was also a big deal to reach the mountain airports. I will post updates on the 262 work. Probably starting with the panel. Stay tuned. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Z W]

One other note - the cost of ownership on both planes was almost identical. Same hangar rent, same annual base cost, same insurance, even fairly similar random maintenance. There are more systems on the modern plane, but the age of the vintage plane results in a lot of random hoses, wires, accessories, etc wearing out. Aside from the eventual engine rebuild, it is not any cheaper to own a vintage Mooney, in my experience. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[bd32322]

Informative .. Thanks, I will be out selling mine soon

[Heloman]

It seems to be an ego thing with with lots of guys, boats or airplanes, I hear it all the time, "I'm not taking less than X, no matter what." Often time "X" is much much more than the item it worth so they let their boat or airplane just sit and rot away not being used; I've learned to just nod my head in patronizing agreement when I hear it, they own it, they can go to their grave with it if they want to. Many of these guys act like the years of sitting have no effect on the value...

[Z W]

Very true, although in our case, it was "If we cant get X lets just keep it and fly it." Two years and lots of repair/maintenance bills later, we changed our approach to "get it sold at whatever the market says its worth." Turns out that was about $7k less than X. After cutting out the brokers $5k commission we actually did not pocket much less than we originally wanted. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Heloman]

Very true, although in our case, it was "If we cant get X lets just keep it and fly it." Two years and lots of repair/maintenance bills later, we changed our approach to "get it sold at whatever the market says its worth." Turns out that was about $7k less than X. After cutting out the brokers $5k commission we actually did not pocket much less than we originally wanted. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You seem like a reasonable guy, I hope to buy a Mooney from a guy like you!

[butchgilbert]

Thinking of selling mine soon as well, good market info, thanks.

 

Butch

[SkyBound]

Zane,

 

I am in the process of selling my M20C after upgrading to an M20K and found your post helpful and encouraging.  Thank you for taking the time to write about your experience.

 

--Alex

[Joe Minor]

I'm Joe Minor who bought Zane's 68C and I just came across this post doing a search on Oxygen systems of all things.  I've flown Zane's old plane about 20 hours now and am very happy with it for my first venture into general aviation and aircraft ownership, but I suppose that's off topic.

 

With respect to the thread topic I can comment on exactly why I ended up buying 11N from Zane and his father.  I'm a first time plane buyer, as I would guess many of the individuals buying a vintage are.  I'd done a lot of internet research comparing similarly equipped aircraft with my minimum requirements (6-pack dash, IFR GPS,  1 axis autopilot, Engine monitor, <1500 SMOH) and contacted 4 or five sellers who were all in the same 45k-55k price range.  Of the 5 I contacted requesting log book copies, 1 didn't respond at all, 2 said they didn't have scanned logbooks, and the other aircraft that send the logs had compressions in the mid 60's.

 

Zane got me the complete scanned books and several dozen pictures within a day of my first email contact.  Everything looked in order and in the course of the next week over a dozen emails we'd arranged a purchase contract and movement to a MSC near my location in Huntsville all while I was still in Afghanistan.  More than anything it was the quick response to emails and honest answers to my questions. Not all of the answers were good news (Does the fuel take leak?, etc.), but the answers were all honest it helped build the trust between a seller and (especially a first time) buyer that is necessary for a major purchase.

 

I was actually looking for a E or F and am sure I could have found one that was as good or even a better deal than 11N that I ended up buying, but I felt very comfortable buying 11N, even when it wasn't exactly what I was looking for because of the quick and honest email responses. Not to say that I'm not very happy with the plane, but I want to emphasis that I ended up buying something different than I was originally looking for based on good honest polite dealing by Zane and his father.

 

Right now I'm mostly searching the forums as it seems most of my questions have been answered 2 or 3 times in the past.  I'm sure I'll have some questions in the near future worthy of posting and hopefully as I gain some more GA experience can even chime in with opinions here and there

 

v/r,

 

joe minor

 

 

[Z W]

We are very happy to have passed 11N on to you, Joe.  I don't think anybody ever starts out looking for a C model, but they're a great value, and a lot of bang for your buck in GA.

 

If you ever decide to sell, look me up, I might want it back someday .