Suggestions for a new Panel

[chrisk]

I have a new to me Mooney 231.  It could probably use a pannel upgrade.

 

I have a budget of $20K, but I seem to be going over.  Here is what I am thinking:

 

GMA 350 Audio Panel

GTN 650 w/Altitude encoder

GNC255A  (Nav/Com).  The king radios are old.

GPSS roll steering

A GTX330/ES transponder

 

Unfortunately, this leaves no money for an install!  I could keep the older KY197 (missing a few segments) and the KN53 Nav radio.  And to further reduce the budget, keep the old KT76A transponder.

 

I'd love to hear suggestions

 

 

[N601RX]

Have you considered the used value of the stuff you are removing?  It looks like you would have close to 3K if your removed all of it.

[DaV8or]

I'd keep the transponder, keep the audio panel and skip the GPSS unless there is really money in the budget. Ditch all the Nav, Coms and ADF. Start from most obsolete and annoying and go down the list towards the nice to haves based on budget. IMO, your transponder and audio panel are still serviceable and do 90+% of what you want/need them to do.

[Rwsavory]

Assuming that all of your existing avionics function well, I would replace RNAV and ADF with the GTN 650 and get the roll steering now until you have enough money for a total re-do (if that's what you want).  Replacing all the radios, audio panel and transponder wouldn't give you more capability than you have now.

[M20F-1968]

I have some panels cut for a Mooney that can save you some design time and water-jet cutting expense.  See attached pictures.

You can reach me at johnabreda@yahoo.com  Cell (617) 877-0025

Take a look at my gallery and you can see my end result.  These panels were made as the panel evolved over years and equipment changed.

They can be installed directly in place of yours.  Which one depends of the equipment you wish to install.  They are 0.090" aluminum.  The bottom edge still needs to be bent in a sheet metal brake.

[aaronk25]

I sold my identical adf on ebay for $350....if that helps!  

[jlunseth]

Here is what I did with my panel, it was before the 650 was available.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/29162-no-caption/

 

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/29163-no-caption/

 

We took out all the factory strip gauges for the engine and put a 930 on the pilot's side panel.  We also put the annunciator for the AP and the switch/button for the GPSS on the pilot's side panel.  This puts all these critical functions in the pilot's scan for IFR, and having very visible engine readouts in the scan has saved my bacon more than once.  Other than the vacuum (which the 930 does not support) if anything goes wrong with the engine I know it immediately. 

 

I agree on the transponder, it will be required in a few years might as well do it now.  I kept my ADF and still use it on occasion, we still have NDB's in Minnesota.  It is most useful for picking up the weather at airports that have an NDB broadcasting the one minute weather.  Even if you have a GPS and use it for the approach, the local weather is valuable, it will save you from having to get the weather from some other station and suffer higher minimums as a result - which my not let you land. 

 

I really like the PS Engineering intercom, they are ahead of their time. 

 

The biggest problem I can see looking at your panel is all the old King equipment with lenses (that's what they call the faceplate) going bad.  You can get them repaired, but the lenses are very often more expensive than going to Southeast Aerospace or someplace similar and exchanging your old unit for a rebuilt.  They are good equipment, but the digits reach the point where they don't come on, or only come on partly, or quit on you if they are in the sun for awhile.

[chrisk]

Both of the KY197s have lenses that are going bad, and some of the digit segments don't light. 

 

 

The biggest problem I can see looking at your panel is all the old King equipment with lenses (that's what they call the faceplate) going bad.  You can get them repaired, but the lenses are very often more expensive than going to Southeast Aerospace or someplace similar and exchanging your old unit for a rebuilt.  They are good equipment, but the digits reach the point where they don't come on, or only come on partly, or quit on you if they are in the sun for awhile.

 

I also see you kept your KNS80.  I'm curious why?  I'm thinking I may keep mine too.  It has DME,Nav, and Glide slope. --And I couldn't sell it for very much.  Then, I could go with a com only radio as a backup to the 650, or keep the KY197 until I can't read the display anymore.

[jlunseth]

I kept it as backup and for those occasions where a second NAV is useful to find a fix.  In the original configuration it was routed to the AP and was the primary nav.  The primary nav. is now the 430 which routes to the HSI and to the AP either directly, or through the GPSS when switched to GPSS mode.  It will fly any procedure including procedure turns, holds, etc.  There is a CDI on the pilot's side panel left of the gear switch, the KNS 80 was routed to that CDI instead of the original routing to the HSI.  About the only time I use the KNS 80 is on takeoff when I might get asked by ATC for a radial and distance from the departure airport or navaid.  I will also set it up on an ILS if there is time, in the event the 430 goes out or something happens in the signal.  I have had that happen only once, we got no glideslope signal on the 430/HSI. 

 

I am very glad I kept the KY197.  I paid for the 430AW (16 watt transmitter) but it is not a very good radio.  I lose reception if distances are too great, or if there is interference such as a Tstorm between me and the ground radio I am talking to.  The KY197 is my go to for those occasions, much more dependable than the Garmin. 

 

I got a rebuilt in place of the old KNS80 though (I am pretty sure mine is a KNS81).  It was not very costly. The lens on the old one was pretty bad, it was hard to figure out what I was dialing in with digits disappearing from time to time.

[OR75]

what autopilot do you have ? i do not see it on the picture at the top ?

[Mike A]

I have the same equipment in mine and got quoted $1350 on trade for everything but a nav, comm, and transponder.

[jlunseth]

Oops you were asking about the OP's AP.  I do not see an annunciator for one in the picture he posted.

[stevesm20b]

I would keep the KT-76A for now, but do the rest.

[chrisk]

what autopilot do you have ? i do not see it on the picture at the top ?

The auto pilot is S-TEC 30.

[OR75]

if your current audio panel is working fine, why don't you keept it ? the KMA-24 is not obsolete technology and some newer audio panels are slide in replacement to the KMA-24.

the GTN 650 will get you waas. so why not keep your current KT-76. you can be ads-b out compliant without needing an ES transponder later on. add GDL-88 and be done with ads-b now instead ???

the faces of the 197 and 53 can be brought to new for a few $100. but probably best to replace with a new GNC 255 or even a used KX-155.

i like the robustness and signal strength of king audio panels and nav-coms.

GPSS ... really depends on your flying. but I don't see a compelling case with an S-tec 30

[M016576]

I'd keep the kns-80, one ky-197, and the transponder.

I'd install the GTN-650, make that my primary NAV/comm.

Then I'd keep the rest in cash for fuel or an overhaul!!!!

[OR75]

I'd keep the kns-80, one ky-197, and the transponder.

I'd install the GTN-650, make that my primary NAV/comm.

Then I'd keep the rest in cash for fuel or an overhaul!!!!

good option as well

with the 80 and 197 you get , nav, com and dme

you can replace the faceplates relatively for cheap

the digits missing is a very easy fix.

[chrisk]

good option as well

with the 80 and 197 you get , nav, com and dme

you can replace the faceplates relatively for cheap

the digits missing is a very easy fix.

 

Where would I go to get a new faceplate with digits?  Thanks!

[OR75]

the faceplate and digits are separate.

 

for faceplate: check out Chiefaircraft. Not cheap for what it is, but it will make the equipment look like new. Check out ebay also or just do an internet search  for lens, bezel, etc ...Most likely you will only need the lens (the orange lens that tend to delaminate)

   

digits:  you can buy the display also (check ebay), but, I would first carefully open the unit and clean the connectors to remove surface corrosion and see what happens.

I am betting the digits will come back nice an bright.  

[N601RX]

You can get new lenses here. That, spray paint and the silver paint pen they sell will make them look like new.

 

http://www.aircraftengravers.net/aircraft/fp_list.htm

[M016576]

the faceplate and digits are separate.

for faceplate: check out Chiefaircraft. Not cheap for what it is, but it will make the equipment look like new. Check out ebay also or just do an internet search for lens, bezel, etc ...Most likely you will only need the lens (the orange lens that tend to delaminate)

digits: you can buy the display also (check ebay), but, I would first carefully open the unit and clean the connectors to remove surface corrosion and see what happens.

I am betting the digits will come back nice an bright.

Yep! Try a pencil eraser on the contacts on the display, then a little contact cleaner. Worked like a champ on my KY-197 when the knob stopped working and some digits were dropping out.

I bought new faceplates for my 80, 197 and kr87 over the past two years on eBay. The trick is to be patient, search a couple different terms and wait for a deal (don't jump on the first one you see if you feel it's over priced... It probably is). I paid between 20 and 50 dollars for the faceplates. Now the panel is looking pretty sharp though!

I'm fairly old school when it comes to my preference for instruments... I absolutely love my KNS-80- simple, easy to use and effective!

[N601RX]

Here is a new stick on overlay I put on my audio panel.  Before it was filthy and none of the text was readable.  I think it cost $20 from the website I mentioned above.

[chrisk]

Sounds like my first step is to clean the contacts on the KY197s.  If the digits come back, it sounds like it worth keeping one in the panel as a second radio.  It also sounds like  the KMA 24 audio panel is going to stay.

 

In this case, I'd want a second nav radio.  Either the KN53 or the KNS 80.  At the moment, I'm leaning towards keeping the KNS80, since it has DME.  But it does take more space.

[jlunseth]

I don't remember the differences between the 80 and the 81, but can the 80 not create a VOR/radial/distance waypoint in space?  It is rare to need that anymore but I have used it once or twice, maybe once a year for some odd reason, another is the ability to tune up to four VOR's and switch between them with the DSP (Display) function.  The rapid switching is useful when flying an approach such as an ILS that has multiple crossing radials to identify waypoints or fixes.  The versatility plus the DME is why I kept mine.

[N601RX]

The 81 has a separate but linked DME and the 80 is all built together in one box.  I have the 80 and still use it sometimes in place of the kln 94.