M20J Installation of a Garmin 430 and a Garmin 530

[fantom]

I don't have a 696 but it is WAAS enabled, and while it may take some study the 400/500 GPS is a wonder, and no, I haven't mastered all aspects of it, myself.

[PTK]

Quote: MB_M20F

[PTK]

Quote: allsmiles

[danb35]

Again, the 430W does have a terrain database and an obstacle database.  No, it won't do all of those things (though it will do some), but the answer to "how low can you go without notifying ATC" is 7000', your last assigned cruising altitude.

Really, though, how can you say that it increases workload?  Again, compared to what?  There is no other product, or even combination of products, on the (light GA) market today that does what the 430W/530W does.  If your workload is higher with a 430W than without one, doing the same set of operations, I'd like to hear what's in your panel and what those operations are--because my workload is definitely lower, and there are some things I can do now that simply weren't possible before installing it.

It's worth pointing out that Garmin's "monopoly" exists only because nobody has chosen to compete with them in the 13 years that the x30 has been on the market, with the exception of the Apollo CX80.  There are plenty of competing avionics manufacturers, but no competing products.  Why is that?  I suspect it's because nobody else has been able to come up with a superior product for the same money.  If they had, they'd be marketing it, and eating Garmin's lunch, but that hasn't happened.  King's "product" is vaporware, and has been for nearly 3 years.

[Buster1]

I don't know, but Rage's 696 is pretty sweet.  It has airways, MOCAS, icing at various levels, cloud TOPS!, and more.  Not bad for 3 AMU and a monthly fee.  And the controls are easy to use if you are a Gen Xer or younger.

[Carl S]

It looks like the Flight Cheetah has similar functions as the 696 at about half the AMUs and much less in yearly subscription costs . I am seriously looking at it as a source of supplementary data.

For an IFR IMS capable unit I have hope that the King 770 pans out now that it is certified.  Maybe by the time I can afford it the King will have lot's of reviews and maybe even cause Big G to start lowering it's prices.

< edit > Removed formatting < /edit >

< edit > Changed IMS to IFR.  Doh! Nobody needs an mainframe DBMS in their airplane. < /edit >

[PTK]

Quote: danb35

Again, the 430W does have a terrain database and an obstacle database.  No, it won't do all of those things (though it will do some), but the answer to "how low can you go without notifying ATC" is 7000', your last assigned cruising altitude.

Really, though, how can you say that it increases workload?  Again, compared to what?  There is no other product, or even combination of products, on the (light GA) market today that does what the 430W/530W does.  If your workload is higher with a 430W than without one, doing the same set of operations, I'd like to hear what's in your panel and what those operations are--because my workload is definitely lower, and there are some things I can do now that simply weren't possible before installing it.

It's worth pointing out that Garmin's "monopoly" exists only because nobody has chosen to compete with them in the 13 years that the x30 has been on the market, with the exception of the Apollo CX80.  There are plenty of competing avionics manufacturers, but no competing products.  Why is that?  I suspect it's because nobody else has been able to come up with a superior product for the same money.  If they had, they'd be marketing it, and eating Garmin's lunch, but that hasn't happened.  King's "product" is vaporware, and has been for nearly 3 years.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I've done at least half of my IFR flying on a King stacks with COMM/NAV1&2 and DME and I really like it when I get to take someone else's GNS430 into actual.

 

And the King unit sounds like $14k+.

 

Couple the GNS430 to an MFD and you have a ton of add'l situational awareness.  I wish Garmin would hurry up with airways.  But as long as you're set up before you start your takeoff roll, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking it into actual.

Besides, when you have the power to use a proven setup with the G500 system being run by your GNS530/430, you just cannot beat that.  The King stacks won't work with that.  By the way, the Garmin SL30 nav/comm is killer with how capable it is.

[docket]

I have owned Narco, King and Garmin.  I like Garmin

[danb35]

So, to do the same things you could do on your KNS80 takes more work on the 430W?  That must be what you mean if you say that the 430W increases pilot workload, but I can't imagine how.

Really, though, if you're satisfied with VOR/DME RNAV and have no need for GPS approaches, you don't need the 430W (nor do you need the 770).  Seems you're awfully passionate about something you have no use for, though.

[PTK]

Quote: danb35

So, to do the same things you could do on your KNS80 takes more work on the 430W?  That must be what you mean if you say that the 430W increases pilot workload, but I can't imagine how.

Really, though, if you're satisfied with VOR/DME RNAV and have no need for GPS approaches, you don't need the 430W (nor do you need the 770).  Seems you're awfully passionate about something you have no use for, though.

[hansel]

I'd probably fall asleep if i had any less workload with my 530-- i think i press two buttons from take-off to touch down. A couple more if i have to do a missed (which really only happens in training, and that's supposed to be high workload). Not having GPSS means I get to turn the obs needle when prompted, which is exciting.

I do look forward to competition though.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

 I'd have use for a true IFR box for (maybe) less than this kind of money!  I do not need an overpriced and underperforming VFR box to give me gps approaches.  I don't think you need them either!  Nobody does in my opinion.

[PTK]

The x30 is a 13 year old box originally designed as a VFR box.  With the exception of WAAS there have been no other improvements.  According to some reviews, it is cumbersome to use and under the right circumstances can be dangerous. We would be doing ourselves a huge diservice if we discount the fact that Honeywell has a tremendous level of experience with sophisticated military and business jet systems.  Honeywel, not Garmin, owns this arena.  Do we not benefit from this when they bring it to us at GA prices?? Is there no value in this???   I think there is tremendous value in this!! We are all adults here and free to make our own decisions.  The original question was to buy 430/530 or not.  My opinion, and only my opinion, is to wait until the 770 comes out. It's nor vaporware as some have called it, it's coming. Honeywell did not develop it just to turn around and kill it.  (Like Garmin killed the 480.  They bought it and killed it.  An awesome box it was and instead of improving upon it they killed it!!)  Perhaps then Garmin will wake up and come out with something to answer to it.  In the end we benefit.  We the GA user benefits from the technology and possibly lower prices.

This is only my opinion and its worth as much as you paid for it! 

[FAADAR]

Hi All

Well just for information I found out the 530 and 430 will not fit in the same stack on my Mooney, the "Y" bar behind the panel will not allow the 30 CM needed for the rack and the connections. for that matter there is not even 20 CM between the panel and the "Y" GRRRR I was expecting this and have had ideas of cutting away the bar in my dreams  EVIL EVIL thoughts. guess it would not be too bad as long as I do not accelerate too fast whilst twisting the fuselage from the torque of the engine in a left turn below 2000 ft  density altitude

Kids if you are reading.. don't try this at home......

Guess I will have to find another solution

[Parker_Woodruff]

I know how you feel about making stuff fit, to some degree.

[PTK]

How does it fit in other J's that have the 430/530 combo?  Its the same structrure.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: allsmiles

How does it fit in other J's that have the 430/530 combo?  Its the same structrure.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: JimR

 Man, Parker, that looks expensive! 

Jim

 

[PTK]

Quote: JimR

I don't think that they have the 530 and 430 mounted in the same column.  Scott (KSMooniac) has the 530/430 combo, and if I am not mistaken he reported some time ago that they would not fit in the same stack.  They apparently have to be mounted side-by-side. 

Jim

  

[PTK]

Quote: JimR

I don't think that they have the 530 and 430 mounted in the same column.  Scott (KSMooniac) has the 530/430 combo, and if I am not mistaken he reported some time ago that they would not fit in the same stack.  They apparently have to be mounted side-by-side. 

Jim

  

[PTK]

Quote: allsmiles

I don't think that they have the 530 and 430 mounted in the same column.  Scott (KSMooniac) has the 530/430 combo, and if I am not mistaken he reported some time ago that they would not fit in the same stack.  They apparently have to be mounted side-by-side. 

Jim

  

[FAADAR]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

I know how you feel about making stuff fit, to some degree.

[FAADAR]

Quote: allsmiles

 Here is a photo of one.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: FAADAR

Like the pilot seat in the photo.. is that STC'd ?