Rochester MN Flying Club Cessna Crash

[Hank]

  On 12/12/2012 at 12:00 AM, astelmaszek said:

After reading that post, it sounds to me like a clear case tunnel vision, clearly focusing on ILS needles only and not paying attention to anything else. All could be avoided by proper call outs. I'm like a schizophrenic in my cockpit, talk to myself all the time, especially with others in the cockpit: 1000 to go, 500 to go, 400 to go, 300 to go, 200 to go, 100 to go, go around, mixture, power, 85, flaps up, trim down, climb, unsuspend, etc, etc, etc.

My own call-outs are not Height AGL, but whatever MDA happens to be on the altimeter:

1700, going to 840; 1400, going to 840.

Oh, yeah, I round the MDA up to at least the next 10' if not 20' increment. "828" can't be read on my altimeter, so I'm happy to keep the needle right there at the 840' mark. Saying '800, going to 840' is obviously wrong, so maybe it will keep me from ever getting there.

Throwing in 'correcting left' or 'correcting right' helps me keep up with what I'm doing and remember to take the correction out.

All you need to watch on the ILS is the two needles and the altimeter every now and then. [Normal scan applies, but I tend to concentrate on these two dials.]

[fantom]

All you need to watch on the ILS is the two needles and the altimeter every now and then. [Normal scan applies, but I tend to concentrate on these two dials.]

......and don't forget to look outside every now and then ;-)

[fantom]

All you need to watch on the ILS is the two needles and the altimeter every now and then. [Normal scan applies, but I tend to concentrate on these two dials.]

......and don't forget to look outside every now and then ;-)

[Marauder]

  On 12/12/2012 at 9:18 PM, fantom said:

All you need to watch on the ILS is the two needles and the altimeter every now and then. [Normal scan applies, but I tend to concentrate on these two dials.]

......and don't forget to look outside every now and then ;-)

I have flown with a few pilots who have what I call "whereistherunwayitis". It's when they get close to the MDA or DA (couple of hundred feet) and for some unknown reason begin looking more outside than inside. Those are the guys who scare me...

[fantom]

  On 12/12/2012 at 10:17 PM, Marauder said:

I have flown with a few pilots who have what I call "whereistherunwayitis". It's when they get close to the MDA or DA (couple of hundred feet) and for some unknown reason begin looking more outside than inside. Those are the guys who scare me...

As do the head down gizmo geek's who keep their eyes buried in all the cool glass and dials. I won't fly with any of them in the left seat more than once, and sadly they, and their like minded junior CFIs are multiplying in my observation.

Everything in moderation.

[jetdriven]

  On 12/11/2012 at 6:13 PM, dekeyrel said:

I was the student pilot onboard 9853Q when it went down last week. I've shared the story of its final flight and the personal lessons learned here. May everyone learn something from our experience and become better pilots because of it. Thank you, Alan.

Unfortunately, none of the 5 lessons involve preventing the next accident of this sort. Dekeryel, what do you think caused the accident?

[Hank]

  On 12/12/2012 at 10:17 PM, Marauder said:

I have flown with a few pilots who have what I call "whereistherunwayitis". It's when they get close to the MDA or DA (couple of hundred feet) and for some unknown reason begin looking more outside than inside. Those are the guys who scare me...

I agree! I went out with my -II on a day with moderate broken ceilings with long, gray virga hanging out, somewhere around 800 agl. We flew several approaches, just so that I could practice transitioning from IMC & panel to "out the windshield." It was a very different experience from flying to MDA then removing the foggles.

The broken, gappy cloud bottom with occasional glimpses of ground made it tempting to concentrate out the window, but that leads to broken airplanes. The whole point that day was to fly the panel and glance out the windshield and practice when and how to make the transition, since that is the danger point on low approaches. No, 800 isn't low, but it's low enough for good practice. Once learned, the behavior pattern is set and I still fly that way. So far, my wife is still a willing traffic spotter, but her introduction to IMC was much worse weather [stormy, updrafts, dark clouds, deviations . . . ]; nothing has bothered her since, even when her headset hit the ceiling last Sunday in the clear [yeah, it was a little bouncy, she tightened her belt and had no more issues]. I'm a lucky man, twice over--a Mooney to fly, and a great wife to fly it with!

[jetdriven]

  On 12/12/2012 at 8:17 PM, Hank said:

My own call-outs are not Height AGL, but whatever MDA happens to be on the altimeter:

1700, going to 840; 1400, going to 840.

Oh, yeah, I round the MDA up to at least the next 10' if not 20' increment. "828" can't be read on my altimeter, so I'm happy to keep the needle right there at the 840' mark. Saying '800, going to 840' is obviously wrong, so maybe it will keep me from ever getting there.

Throwing in 'correcting left' or 'correcting right' helps me keep up with what I'm doing and remember to take the correction out.

All you need to watch on the ILS is the two needles and the altimeter every now and then. [Normal scan applies, but I tend to concentrate on these two dials.]

The only thing that matters after the FAF is MDA or DH. Even in a 747. The next item after that is the ground.

[Rwsavory]

Night IFR approaches in low weather account for a lot of GA accidents. I think the lesson from this accident is to establish personal minimums that give you margin for error and stick with them, especially with passengers aboard.

[M016576]

  On 12/14/2012 at 12:02 AM, jetdriven said:

The only thing that matters after the FAF is MDA or DH. Even in a 747. The next item after that is the ground.

+1

[M016576]

  On 12/12/2012 at 10:46 PM, fantom said:

As do the head down gizmo geek's who keep their eyes buried in all the cool glass and dials. I won't fly with any of them in the left seat more than once, and sadly they, and their like minded junior CFIs are multiplying in my observation.

Everything in moderation.

Guys get enamoured by their "synthetic vision" so much they forget to use their real vision. Aspen-itis and Garmin-itis for sure.